In celebration of Black History Month, we chat with Bosun Adebaki, Business Operations at Plaid. He is an action-oriented and analytical problem solver passionate about using FinTech to make financial systems more accessible to everyone. His extensive background in strategy, finance, and operations has helped businesses across Europe, North America, and LatAm scale and succeed.
Bosun was born and raised in a part of London called Hackney, which is known for vibrancy and diversity. He got a Business Management degree at the University of Nottingham and went to the US to get this MBA.
His interest and passion for FinTech stemmed from a personal family experience. He aims to use tools like alternative data, web 3.0 technologies, and mobile experiences to make financial tasks simpler and more accessible for end-users.
In this episode, Bosun shares his career experiences and the responsibilities of someone working in Business Operations (BizOps). Having lived and worked in different countries, he also tells us his I-don’t-know-how-to-but-I-will-find-the-solution experiences and how his plans of setting up his own startup that would help women of color in the world led him to one of the most exciting FinTech startups in the US.
Episode Quotes:
On his decision to get an MBA
“I had worked for a while at PwC. I was pretty fortunate in that I had started in London, I spent some time in Switzerland, and I spent the last few years in Mexico. I was building a team. I loved it. I really enjoyed it. It was an excellent experience. I think you also get to a point where you think, “Okay, if I look forward five or ten years, is this what I want to continue doing? Or if I were the 18-year-old version of me today with what I know now about the world, would I choose to do something different? How would I think about the world? So, that was kind of the catalyst. Let’s refresh and let’s start off with the version of me today, not the version of me who made the first decision [about my career] when I was 17.”
On choosing Haas
“I came, walked around the campus, and I was like, I could see myself here. And it’s one of these things where there was no sophistication about the decision. [It was simply], I feel like this is where I could be for a few years. And I feel like I would be happy here versus the other places where I could have gone. And I was right. It was a really fun experience. I met, as you will know, awesome people. The fact that we’re speaking is sentiment to what Haas has to offer.”
On his experience at Berkeley
“The whole way society exists around identity, around race, around all of these topics, these are very present on campus, which was good because it made you have conversations about it. But if you are one of the affected groups who are being asked to provide way more than the experience of just the student, it changes somewhat the experience. It was slightly different at Berkeley, particularly for students of color. For example, There was a lot more of a focus from classmates on, “Bos, what do you think?” Or, “What’s your view?” Which is good. I like to share my views about perspectives. Sometimes it’s also nice for a topic to be so adjacent to me that no one even wonders what my opinion is. It was an interesting introduction to US society but it was also very Berkeley, right?”
The job of someone working in BizOps
“Find problems that are preventing the company from self-actualizing and fix them by whatever means necessary. Use your toolkits, use your relationship, use your creativity, use all of the things that you have at your disposal to find the best way to solve a problem and to make everybody else better equipped to be successful in their roles.”
Show Links:
- LinkedIn Profile
- Measure What Matters: OKRs: The Simple Idea that Drives 10x Growth
- Americanah
- The Undoing Project: A Friendship That Changed Our Minds
Transcript:
(Transcripts may contain a few typographical errors due to audio quality during the podcast recording.)
Sean: Welcome to the OneHaas Alumni Podcast. I’m your host, Sean Li. And today we’re joined by Bosun Adebaki. Bos, you are a full-time MBA class of 2019, and currently, you work as a Business Operations at Plaid. Welcome to the podcast.
Bosun: Thank you for having me, Sean.
Sean: Bos, with your accent, I just have to ask where you grew up and how you grew up. Love to hear a little bit about that.
Bosun: Yeah. I grew up in England, so originally from London, born and raised, and I grew up in a part of London called Hackney, which I’m pretty proud of because when I was growing up it was known for vibrancy and diversity. Right. There’s always a nut and bolt story.
Bosun: I tell my friends, at the top of my road, when I was growing up on the left-hand side, you had a mosque. On the right-hand side, you had a synagogue. On one belt behind you, a church. So, every single day you had the sounds of the different cultures and different people in different religious spaces. And that becomes part of your DNA, right? Like, everything is normal. Everything is the same. It’s just a different language for the same thing.
Sean: Did you go to school in London?
Bosun: Yeah. I went to school in London, and that’s where I really started. Went to a university outside of London that was kind of an intentional decision to be as far away from home that you don’t get an arbitrary visit from your mum randomly, but close enough to home so that when you’re washing your mum can help you out. So, yeah, but I grew up in London, went to school in London, 15 minutes, 20-minute walk from where we used to live.
Sean: Got it. And you went to, as you said, try to get as far as possible, but not too far. What was it like at the University of Nottingham and what did you study there?
Bosun: It was cool. It was good. It was, you know, I remember going to England before you go to decide the university, you spend the kind of going around to different campuses and walking around and get a feel for, you know. And I remember I went to Nottingham. And the campus is massive, it reminds me a lot of the campus is really big, really green, and it seems so different from inner-city London, which is flats next to houses next to flats.
Bosun: Everything is very jam-packed. So, it was a really interesting experience. I, yeah, it was just, it was fun to be outside of London. It was fun to see a different side of the world. It was fun to have grass and greenery around all the time. Yeah, it was pretty nice.
Sean: That’s awesome. So, what did you study at the university?
Bosun: Yeah. So, I studied business, which was, I remember I was actually going to study phycology. I want to just phycology because I was really fascinated by how the mind works and how people make decisions. Right. And how your experiences in the form, your kind of perspective, and your scheme of looking at the world.
Bosun: But then, you know, I did my research. I can’t wait six or seven years to start getting paid, which is having a taste, I qualified like a sophisticated psychologist. So, I was like, no, let me do something a bit more practical. Let me just do a business degree where it’s pretty broad. And I joined one of the big, professional services firms called PwC when I graduated. So it was like a, had a really good baseline for.
Sean: Yeah, that makes perfect sense. I mean, I had the same feeling. I was just fascinated by the human condition. And I wanted to study psychology. My mom was like, how about you choose business? It’s very similar.
But even to this day, I was just talking to someone about this morning, one of our team members, how I just love books about the human condition. One of my favorite books, The Undoing Project by Michael Lewis. It’s a story of Daniel Kahneman, behavioral economists, and Amos Tversky, and it’s about their story of how they came upon the field of behavioral psychology. They coined a lot of the terms around the biases that we know today, confirmation bias, and things, and it just always blows my mind. Like how did you it’s so obvious now after they’ve coined, but how do they even come to think, to study this thing and say, Hey, let’s study all these biases? And we’re going to run experiments around these biases and whatnot. And it just amazes me.
Bosun: And I imagine like, whilst you’re doing that being cognizant of your own biases, which inform how you view biases. The Undoing Project, you said?
Sean: Yeah, The Undoing Project. Just an amazing story of a friendship and how they came upon these things. But tell us a little bit about what brought you to the MBA?
Bosun: Yeah. I had worked for a while at PwC. I was pretty fortunate in that I had started in London. I spent some time in Switzerland and I spent the last few years in Mexico. I was building the team. I loved it. I really enjoyed it. It was an excellent experience. I think you also get to a point where you think, Okay, if I look forward 5 or 10 years, is this what I want to continue doing?
Or if I were the 18-year-old version of me today, with what I know now about the world, would I choose to be something different? And I think my initial decisions about my career were a lot driven by family, right? My mother was a single parent. I had siblings. So, it was more of, okay, let me start with a job which is safe, which provides a bit of security, in my early years.
By this point I was like, well, that was done, my sisters graduated. I’m good. I’m chilling. So, let me get a blank piece of paper. How would I think about the world? So that was kind of the catalyst, right? Let’s refresh and let’s start off with the version of me today, but the version of me who made the first decision when I was 17, right?
So, when I thought about it, I had an idea, I’m going to do my own FinTech start up. It’s going to be catered to, you know, specifically for women of color who struggled to get financed because that was something I saw growing up. I was like, Yeah, I’m going to go and start and, you know, do an MBA because my mum won’t get crazy if I say to her, I’m quitting this job I’ve worked 10 years to get to a really good positioning to go back to school. Whereas if I said, I’m quitting just to chill or do a stock, she might be like, Bos, I think you’re losing it. Right. I’m not sure if that’s the right decision. That was kind of the catalyst.
Berkeley, I came, walked around the campus. I was like, I can see myself here. Right. And it’s one of these things where it was like a human, there was no sophistication about that decision. It was just like, I feel like this is where I could be for a few years. And I feel like I would be happy here versus the other places where I could have gone. And I was right. I think I was, I don’t have the counterfactual right but it was a really fun experience. I met, as you will know, awesome people. The fact that we’re speaking is itself, you know, sentiment to what Berkeley and Haas have to offer. I came here to start this thing but I also came here just to take a step back and say, okay, let me think about what I would want to do if I wasn’t incumbent by the things I think I should do.
Sean: Yeah, I see. And what was your experience like?
Bosun: At Berkeley? Yeah, it was funny. You have the downs, not less so of like my personal experience, but more of what was going on campus and in America, particularly if you’re a foreign person coming to America, right. So, like the whole way society exists around identity, around race, around all of these topics, are very present on campus, which was good because it made you have conversations about it.
But if you are one of the affected groups who are, you know, being asked to provide way more than the experience of just the student, it changes somewhat the experience, right? It’s not like, Hey, I’m going to Berkeley. It’s like my secondary school where 30 people look like me but you wouldn’t even always who to, because everyone’s the same, right. And in that experience, you just live the student experience as you assume that you can get lucked into the crowd. Whereas it was slightly different at Berkeley, particularly for students of color, right, where there was a lot going on in America, a lot going on in the world. And there’s a lot more of a focus on, Hey, Bos, what do you think? Or what’s your view? Which is good. I like to share my views about perspectives. Sometimes, it’s nice just for a topic to be so adjacent to me that no one even wonders what my opinion is.
It’s just, Oh, I don’t need to ask because we all understand it as a conceptual thing. Which was a bit like it was interesting. It was an interesting introduction to kind of US society but it was also very Berkeley, right? I’d only met, you know, other campuses where we have such deep and in-depth conversations.
I’m sure you’ve had podcasts with people who are ex-Haasies. You talk about the dynamics of race class that we had, which was unbelievable. In my top three classes at Haas and now basically a student one class, right. So, you think that kind of thing is what makes Berkeley really unique and really special.
The other piece is which we were really good were the blockchain, the crypto hype. So I joined, I went in, just as a sign to get excited. I basically spent my two years doing research into the industry. Learning about it, doing tools, writing stuff, getting to the point where when people said the word blockchain, folks were like, Where’s Bos? Like I was like blockchain, either someone says blockchain.
That again was one of those things where it’s so Berkeley. I could never have drawn the line from while I was doing pre-MBA to crypto and blockchain because it just wasn’t working in my brain. What is the conceivable thing? Right. But when you get on the campus and you have these incredible undergrads, super smart, super talented, you have people who are encouraging you to just take a risk, do something different, those are things that when I look back to Berkeley, I’m like, Yeah. All was great.
Sean: Why did you transition from Ripple to Plaid?
Bosun: Yeah. I think there were a couple of reasons. I think one was, and you hear about it a lot at Haas, after a couple of years, the expansion opportunities like grow at like a crazy rate. So, it was an opportunity to do something awesome in a company which I was like I had friends who were building FinTech because everyone was building up. I had apps I used which were built on Plaid. So that bit of seeing a lot more directly the impact on the outcome of my work, having the opportunity to say, okay, we are on a very quick trajectory, what we used to come here and help build and grow this team. And I think one part is just the essence of the mission of the company which is fundamentally what I came to America to do.
And when you think back about the story you want to tell your kids, your family being able to say, Hey, Bosun Adebaki of Haas class 2029 decided to build some crazy FinTech for a specific demographic group. And they could do it because Plaid built all of the infrastructure pieces. That for me was like, that is so compelling. I am still deep in the crypto, blockchain game. I was actually with one of my friends last night having some dinner. I think the company is doing awesome things for me. It was a decision of, Hey, you’re getting asked to do something, which is a few degrees bigger and greater than what you’re currently doing. The impact you’re having is more direct. You can see it, you can feel it. And you are building the infrastructure for every FinTech that you know, which gives you the ability to have a multiplier effect immediately, right?
Sean: Yeah. You know, it’s a perfect segue. Can you tell us a little bit more about what you’re doing at Plaid?
Bosun: Yeah. Plaid is FinTech, and what we’re really trying to do is provide access to finance for everybody. Right? It’s kind of how we think about it as a company. And there were a few elements to that, right? One of it is allowing individual consumers like you and I to connect to the apps to allow us to build a better financial life. Part of it is to allow the developers. So, the FinTech apps to get access to data and the insights that they need to build these amazing tools that allow people to have better control of their finances. And another part of it is aligned with these big, large financial institutions to participate in the world of open finance, right? Which is, Hey, your information, your data is now a lot more mobile and allows you to do things that you couldn’t do so easily, 10, 20, 30 years ago. And we rebuild infrastructure to all of that, right? We don’t think about it as being when you have that first amazing experience on our app, we want to be part of that story, right.
And within these meetings, a lot of things that a lot of different companies, I think a BizOps is like a few distinct things. One is all these cross-functional projects are important to a company but don’t neatly fit into the bucket of one person. Right. So only sales, it’s not solely product. It kind of spans all of them, but what you want is somebody whose stake in the game is clad outcome versus sales, product, engineering outcome.
Another part of it is how do you enable the leaders in the organization to make the best decisions as quickly and effectively as possible? And some of that is synthesizing, analyzing data, providing a recommendation, which is substantiated, right? Some of it is okay, we know what the strategy is. We know what we want to do, but how you actually go from, this is what we want to do to this is how we do, and then how’d you go from this is how we do to this is how we measure whether we did it well, less well, or whether more importantly, we should stop doing this because it’s something more important. And then the third kind of bucket I would say is everything else that doesn’t fit neatly into bucket one or two, right?
My BizOps experiences, there are things that vary from opening up offices in new countries to building new ideas, what products and services you want to launch, to thinking about go-to-market strategies for specific segments that you’ve already identified, right? They don’t neatly fall into one or two, but they were all the things that you need to make a business that is scaling sell more quickly, more effectively, and more successfully.
So, yeah, BizOps for me is a job where it is, what I would look for a BizOps person to do is go find problems that are preventing the company from self-actualizing, let’s say, and go fix them by whatever means necessary. Use your toolkits, use your relationship, use your creativity, use all of the things that you have at your disposal to find the best way to solve a problem and to make everybody else better equipped to be successful in their roles.
Sean: That’s perfect. Thank you for giving me the job description for my next hire. That’s exactly what we’re missing at Clever right now.
Bosun: I’m not in the market yet.
Sean: Let us go raise another 40 million and then maybe we can entice you that because we do need to incorporate some aspects of FinTech, of actually, transactions. That’s our big focus and push right now, to incorporate monetization for creators.
Bosun: Yeah. How do you embed the finance so that someone isn’t and, you know, it ties a lot to what we talked about, we talked about my previous job report and it’s very similar. I like Ripple, saying, okay, how do we do things with payments in a web 3.0 kind of world? How do we allow someone to spend 1 cent from Philippines to America immediately?
Sean: Right.
Bosun: How do we make that cost-effective? And when you think about how do you monetize your business, whatever business that is part of it in the future state, the immediate state is okay, well, in America, how do you make that work? How do we connect it to the tooling that exists? How do we get into someone’s bank account? How do we enable them to take information about the podcast and their experiences and translate that into insights to inform their spending or saving or some other kinds of financial or life habits, right?
Sean: Yeah, that’s really interesting. We might be looking for an advisor soon, a new advisor, but jokes aside, you had mentioned at the onset of this conversation your interest and passion around FinTech for underrepresented women. Is that still something you’re able to continue to do some work on or be involved in, in some ways, shape, or form since you haven’t started a startup yet unless there’s something in stealth mode.
Bosun: Yeah, that side has been in stealth mode that no one knows about yet. Not directly but as I said, for me, what we’re building up at Plaid does that. Like it’s very, very essence is that thing. I always said to you, if the plan that I envision in, you know, two, three, whatever number of years, coming to get existed when I landed in America five years ago, then you might be having a different conversation, not about me with Rippler, but both in FinTech. Oh, you know, how did your friends go to FinTech so quickly? How did you become a unicorn in six months? That might be the conversation. So, yeah, not directly.
Bosun: And that’s something that I kind of identified when I came here, which is loads of people. I’ve also my days in a way. loads of people can execute in the bay but I wanted to make sure I was executing something that would happen. And that would really be accessible for the people and the communities I care about.
And I genuinely believe that we can do that. At Plaid, we have the FinRise program where we take a, it’s incubator, right, and it is again, the version of me five years ago, we say, Hey, come, you’re going to have access to plans. All of the brain and horsepower that has, we’re going to use that to help you build, scale your idea, and make it successful. That is incredible. And that is the way I’m getting closer to the outcomes I want to achieve. Yeah.
Sean: Yeah. you know, I’m curious, I mean, you know, you did have that, I’m an entrepreneur. So, I have to ask this question. You did have that inkling to start something. I do wonder, and this is something I completely overlooked sometimes because I’m very privileged in that my parents immigrated here and set the course for me and laid the groundwork so that I can be a citizen here and don’t have to worry about things like that. And did that factor in at all to you know, wanting to be entrepreneurial, just having to have a visa or have a work permit?
Bosun: It does to some degree. I also think that my nature is problem-solving. So, I would have found a solution, right? If I was as committed to that one side, sculpt out what my day would look like, and if I believed I could truly execute on it in the period I thought I had available and I want to execute on it, there would have been a thing, but I would have sold it. I don’t know how but I would have sold it like, uh, it’s a concern. Yes. But there are many, many ways to define flexible solutions. And there are many different types of visas for different kinds of people who are able to defy the things. So, maybe it’s like a later subconscious barrier of I take this risk and all this thing, and then he let’s be, as though it doesn’t work. I get kicked out. I left with 200 grand of debt and I’ve made even more debt from my startup and I’m kicked out of the country. Like maybe I was in my head. Like I couldn’t be there. But in all honesty, I believe, you can blame my mum, she used to say, you know, like executions are possible. You can do whatever you want, as long as you put your mind to it. So, I truly believe that if I had wanted to out of found a solution.
I accepted that what I wanted to do, I didn’t believe that it was going to have the outcome I thought it was, maybe cause at a point off cycles towards thinking, maybe because I realized that it’s less important for me to be at the front of the thing with my face. And it’s more important at discovering juncture in my life to think about the outcome. Maybe like five years time, I’ll be like, man, Sean, dude, I just want to be on Forbes. I just want my face on Forbes. I want to be in that for like, maybe it could happen. So, I would say it was in my mind, it was less than my mind than it probably had been, and if I believe that they’re going to stop, I don’t think it’s going to be an issue.
Sean: I love that. And I had to ask that question for our listeners, just in case, you know, we have a lot of international students. And then, and this is actually a topic that I feel doesn’t get talked about a lot. Obviously, because you know, people do want to do a startup, but it isn’t as feasible sometimes.
And so, I think just having this conversation openly about it, it’s good to start this conversation too. Now I do have to ask, you know, do I like I ever since I moved to the US sometimes I’m just like, I really dream of living elsewhere in another country.
Bosun: Yeah.
Sean: What made you want to come to the US?
Bosun: I think if you want to do an MBA as just like conceptually a thing, there are very few places where it’s valued as tiny. Once you’ve done your MBA, that three to five years post, “Oh, you got an MBA. Oh, you got an MBA from Berkeley. Okay. Yeah. Well, hi. Oh, we haven’t had an interview yet. Yeah. But you’ve got an MBA from Berkeley, so you must be smart, right?” Like that kind of a sentiment.
And I think having lived and worked in London, Mexico, Switzerland, I was like, yeah, you know, the US is due a bit of me, right? And I think there’s just a lot of creativity in this specific part of the world, there is a desire to take risks more relative to other places in the world. And there is an excess of capital to apply to those risks. So, five, it was like, you know, let me see what I can take from it, what I can give to it, right, what I can contribute to society. And when I’m eighty years old, I can’t imagine I’ll be saying, oh man, Dang! I wish I didn’t leave to the US. I wish I’d stayed in London or wherever it was. That’s sort of part of it, rightly. Living experiences was as important as the MBA, right? Live in the experience of another place, another culture, another style, from the beginning you arrive, you’re like, okay, well, how I’d open a bank account.
Bosun: Ah, I don’t know. Like you go to the bank, let’s say you don’t have the paperwork. What paperwork? Oh, we need this document. This document? That kind of experience is I really enjoy doing that again and again, and again.
Sean: That’s amazing. And I think that’s, I don’t know, that’s an Aquarius thing, I have a very similar personality and that I like to back myself into corners or that’s the way I describe it, but it’s just, I like to be uncomfortable, because I feel like it’s how I, when I feel stagnant, how I grow, like I, you know, I came from, I grew up in, I was born in China, grew up in Michigan, in Midwest.
And a lot of my friends after school, you know, went to Chicago, New York, obviously, that’s the nearby big cities. And I was like, Hey, I know one person in Los Angeles, let me just move there. And I literally came out here with, I just drove out here with nothing with like a sleeping bag. And I thought this is freaking amazing. And people are like, you’re crazy. Like, why would you do that? You know, why don’t you go to places where you know, you know more people, but I said, just by the nature of not knowing enough people, I am forced to have to put myself out there.
I’m in Southern California now, but I felt the same way about going to Berkeley. A lot of my friends went to Anderson for business school, which is right in our backyard. And I said, you know, I just really want to go somewhere where I have to meet new people. And it opened my mind up to new things. So, I’m not to your extreme, I’m hoping to get to your extreme of having to open up new bank accounts in new countries all the time. But I’ll get there. I’ll work there, Bos.
Bosun: I moved to Mexico not being able to speak Spanish, like one of those ones that’s like, oh yeah, you know.
Sean: You don’t know how to speak Spanish?
Bosun: Yeah. Now I do right now. Now, basically, my home language is only Spanish. Like I speak English cause I have a home office because of COVID, by the way, they won’t be speaking English at home. But you think like that in itself is the kind of experience you’re describing. Like you go there and okay. Yes. You’re going to the company. So there’s some semblance of security, but the companies like to fire, how did you find the friends, which is most of your time, how’d you find the experience? How did you commute? How do you say I’m annoyed? Like how do you go to the supermarket? And they’d give me something which is rubbish. And you’re like, Hey, you know, this is the one I wanted. I wanted the one in lime green, not deep green. You know, those nuances. So for me, moving to Mexico, spending those, those three, uh, like all of the I don’t know how to but I will find the solution experiences rolled up into a few years of life.
Sean: Yeah, I love it. Well, you know what, when you’re ready to go on Forbes and you need some money, hopefully in three to five years, you know, Survy and I sold out of the company and just like we’ll back whatever it is that you’re doing then.
We’d like to end the interview, this was a fun interview to begin with, but we love to end the interview with even more fun things. Love to hear what are some interesting things that you’re doing lately. Like anything interesting that you’re reading or watching?
Bosun: Reading or watching. No reading. I don’t have anything specific. When I started working off the MBA, I was reading before COVID I was reading a book every few weeks because I’ll take him out the trans bay and it was like my meditation time.
Sean: What would you say is like, you know, aloof the books you’ve read so far, anything that’s very top of mind and influential?
Bosun: There’s a practical one, which is a book called Measure What Matters. Right. We should like the OKR book, which is what I put for work. And I thought it is actually interesting. It’s like a, it’s a good framework, not just for work, but just for how you think about measuring the outcomes that really matter in life, right?
If this is your objective, what are the results and what are the things that allow you to know you’re getting closer. I think in terms of books, I read a lot of books by a Nigerian author. One was called Americanah. It was one that I read where I was like, yeah, that is like my experience is different because I’m from England, right, and when I speak English, that kind of thing. But reading that book, I’m like, okay, you can definitely see the cultural way that Black people from Africa and Black people from America interact and don’t interact. And like that book’s really, really good.
Sean: Well, I completely forgot to ask, like ancestrally, where is your family?
Bosun: Oh, yeah. So, both my parents are from Nigeria. My grandparents are also from Nigeria, but like in Nigeria, a few different tribes. And they’re like the three most well-known tribes let’s say, are Yoruba, Igbo, and Hausa. My grants are both from one tribe where my granddads are both from a different tribe but yeah, so which in itself would historically be considered as different countries, right?
Sean: That’s one of the things I learned very pretty recently, and I would say in the past two or three years of the conflict in Africa is because of, it is just spurred by colonialism in the sense like the country lines were drawn randomly. It was just randomly drawn. And then you’re literally dividing tribes or clans or just clumping tribes together that were different countries, considered different countries.
Bosun: Literally it’s like imagine being the enemy of someone for a thousand years. And then like my mates, the bricks roll up, oh Yeah. You are now the same people. And it’s I hate this guy. Like, I paid this guy somebody 4,000 years. Like, how could I be a mate now? You know.
Sean: Yeah. I feel like we should, I’m always interested in asking this ancestral question because even in China and India, Uh, less Africa as a continent. People tend to think of, well, just because someone thousand years ago, or a hundred, 200 years ago, drew like this line and called everybody Chinese like there’s 56 minority groups have different languages, different cuisine that just completely different people. And it’s one of these things I love exploring because it’s recognizing individuality in that sense.
Bosun: And that history is way deeper and more meaningful in all of the customs, right. Then some arbitrary line, not arbitrary, but you know, like some modern new-age line that dictates that you know, this group of was that the nation.
Sean: It’s very arbitrary in that they drew some lines because there’s a lake there right there or something. It was like, all right, let’s draw around this lake. That’s it. Bos, I would love to talk to you more. It was a real pleasure having you on to.
Bosun: Thank you very much for having me. Thanks for inviting me. It’s been fun.