Fernando Lopez, MBA 06 – Transforming the Way We Think About Sales

(Transcripts may contain a few typographical errors due to audio quality during the podcast recording.)

[00:00:10] Sean: Welcome to the OneHaas Alumni Podcast. I’m your host, Sean Li. And today, we are kicking off, I think it’s the seventh year, seventh season of our OneHaas Podcast since we started this thing. I’m pretty happy. I’m pretty excited about it. And our guest today is Fernando Lopez.

Fernando, you are a wonderful Haas alum, of course, but you are also the sales director at Conviva. Welcome to the podcast.

[00:00:39] Fernando: Thank you, and congratulations on your seventh-year anniversary.

[00:00:44] Sean: Thank you. And, you know, one thing about seven years, it’s got quite a history now, I guess, for the podcast, but where we like to start off on the podcast is hearing our guest background, guest history. So, if you could, you know, share your origin story, as we call it, where you grew up, how you grew up.

[00:01:06] Fernando: Origin story, makes it sound like a superhero, the origin story.

[00:01:11] Sean: Haas alums are superheroes.

[00:01:12] Fernando: Exactly. I’m originally from Mexico City, small town down south, 20 something million, maybe 30 million people. I’m, like, one of three siblings, the oldest one. I went to school in Mexico and then had the opportunity to move to the U.S. back during the first dot-com boom. So, I moved January of 2000, at the end of the party, and then, kind of, like, the beginning of the hangover, right? But I came as an engineer. I have a double D degree. So, I was working software development and writing, like, test automation tools and things like that.

And, after a while I, kind of, needed a change, right? It was too much time in front of screens. I’m a pretty social guy, I like to think. So, I decided to get an MBA. I was looking around. My then girlfriend, now wife, and I fell in love with the Bay Area. And long story short, came over to Haas. And we’ve been in San Francisco ever since.

You know, I was the first one in my immediate family to get a college degree. So, I, you know, didn’t have maybe all of the guidance and so on, but I knew I liked to build things and ended up, you know, being a double E. I didn’t know any better. It was hard work.

[00:02:31] Sean: What part of CDMX are you from, did you grow up? Which neighborhood?

[00:02:36] Fernando: I grew up in the suburbs, kind of, up north. It’s called Satellite. And I did go to school in Mexico City to undergrad. So, I ended up spending time all over the city. I had friends, like, all over. Lots of driving. And it was fun.

[00:02:56] Sean: That’s amazing.

[00:02:56] Fernando: It was a fun time.

[00:02:58] Sean: I’ve told many people this, I think, even on the podcast. Mexico City is in my top three cities in the world. There’s just the food, the museums, the neighborhoods, everything. It’s just such an amazing city to the, you know, fashion, right? There’s just so much there.

[00:03:18] Fernando: Yeah. It’s a cool spot. It can be a little bit tricky to live there because it’s so massive. So, you need to figure out your logistics.

[00:03:27] Sean: Yeah.

[00:03:27] Fernando: But it’s a massive city, it has everything, right?

[00:03:30] Sean: Yeah, that’s right. You know, you mentioned that you were the first one in your family to go to college. What did your parents do? What was their background?

[00:03:39] Fernando: Yes. Good question. So, my dad worked for what was then the state-run power company. And he had a bunch of roles. He started actually, like, blue collar. Like, he was digging holes for, like, you know, light poles and things like that. And then he moved through the ranks. By the time he retired, he was, like, the equivalent of what would be an HR director on a heavily unionized place. So, it was not an easy gig, right? But that’s what he did.

And then my mom stayed at home. She had, actually, a sales career. She sold mainly clothes. But then once I was born, she stayed at home. And I like to think of her as, like, the CFO of the family. Like, she stretched every peso.

[00:04:26] Sean: Of course.

[00:04:27] Fernando: It was amazing, like, you know, when I think of what they could do. Because they were able to send us to private school. And, you know, we had… thanks to that education, you know, I am where I am today.

[00:04:38] Sean: Yeah, that’s amazing. I guess on that note, too, of education, where do you think the inspiration for the engineering came from, the electrical engineering? Was it from your dad’s early days? Where’s the influence?

[00:04:50] Fernando: It was there, I think, from the beginning. I was told stories about me having, like, one of those musical boxes next to my crib and I would, like, reach out and, like, take it and start, like, disassembling it and, like, trying to figure out how it worked.

And I’ve always, still to this day, I like building things and like figuring out how they work. And one of the ways I relax at home is, like, we live in a Victorian built, I don’t know, sometimes in the late 1800s. There’s always something broken. And I love just going around and fixing it. Like, I find that relaxing. So, anyway, that’s probably where it came from.

Electrical engineering, specifically, so I knew how to code, to a certain degree, since I was in middle school. But I felt that I wanted to know the behind-the-scenes, right, like, how to actually, like, build a computer or build, like, you know, something like that. And I found that was the easiest way to, like, keep building things, right? Like, some other arms of engineering would be… it’d be harder to actually go and, like, build something by yourself. Like, it’s harder to build a car or be something like that. Electrical engineering is pretty easy, right? You can just get components and put something together. So, that’s what drove me into it.

And I think, like, tying that to Haas, like, I also always loved the idea of building businesses and, like, everything that happens around the technology, I wanted to understand. Kind of, with the same mentality, right, like, you’re almost building a machine. So, that’s how I got into business and, part of it, how I ended up in sales.

[00:06:35] Sean: That’s amazing. 

[00:06:35] Fernando: I think it’s a key component of that machinery.

[00:06:37] Sean: And what was the inspiration for business school?

[00:06:41] Fernando: There’s two sides to it. One is the building a business thing had always been talked about in my family. Like, there’s always been this, like, hustle, right? Where they’re, like, trying to figure out, like, how to build something, sell something, like, build some… like, it’s usually, like, a small business, right? But it’s part of, kind of, the family culture. As a kid, I did some of that, right? Like, I remember my brother and I bought our first computer by selling candy in our elementary school.

[00:07:15] Sean: Wow, that must’ve been a lot of candy.

[00:07:17] Fernando: It was a lot. Yeah, it’s a good business. That was always there when I was working as an engineer, that was always in the back of my mind. And again, I was getting a little bit bored just being an engineer. So, I’m like, “All right, let’s get an MBA.” And my assumption was I’ll go into product management, product marketing, right? That’s what most people do. And I did it for my summer internship. I did product marketing for a startup. I had the chance to meet with a pretty high-profile VC with Peter Levine, who at the time was at Mayfield. Now, he’s at Andreessen Horowitz. And I was asking for career advice. I’m like, “Hey, Peter, I’m an engineer getting an MBA. You know, I like the startup scene, what should I do?” And from his own experience, Peter was like, “Hey, my company, there are three types of people. There’s people that build product, people that sell product, and overhead, right? You’ve done the building of the product side. What do you want to do next?”

I think it’s like, “All right, it doesn’t take an MBA to know that overhead is not the best approach.” I have heard from other people that, like, you can go into sales and maybe you won’t say it, maybe you won’t like it, but you’re going to get skills that you can use elsewhere.

So, it’s like, all right, I’m going to give it a shot. I’m going to sell. So, I spent my second year of business school looking for a sales gig. It wasn’t easy. I ended up finding one at IBM where they had, like, a super structure sales training program.

[00:08:52] Sean: So, you were at IBM, after that at HP. Tell us about your time at these companies and throughout your career.

[00:08:57] Fernando: Yeah, IBM was a great school, right? Like, school after school. I have got my MBA, but as you know, sales, and this is surprising to me, isn’t part of the core curricula in business school. At least not yet. We’re working on that, by the way. I’m helping. I’m a TA on a sales class at Haas that we’re teaching next spring. It’s the third time we do it. The teacher, Dmitry Kovalev, is a great guy. But anyway, it’s not part of the core curricula. So, I needed to figure out a way to get that training. And IBM was the best way. Like, they provided so much investment. It was like six months’ worth of training.

They flew me over to North Carolina. We’d go through simulations, you know, theory practice. Like, it was awesome. And then you get your territory, you get your compensation plan, and you’re like, “Oh, holy crap. What do I do?” Right? So, from that to learning, like, how to make a living as a sales guy took a while. I got to the point that, like, I was doing really well, and then I was looking for another challenge.

HP seemed like a similar challenge with a little bit of a more strategic approach. It ended up being a tricky time for HP because they had just made an acquisition that went really badly, like, autonomy. I don’t know, for people that like business history, like, it was a nine-billion-dollar writeoff. So, the company was, like, going through a tough time. And it was time for me to go into a startup. Like, I wanted to do a startup when I was at Haas, and it had been a few years. So, I went into a company called New Relic. We were pre-IPO, early on a couple hundred people. So, it wasn’t tiny, but it was still, you know, we’re trying to figure things out. And that was a blast. I was there almost 10 years, from, like, the pre-IPO days, like, setting up their first reseller program, their first MSP program. Then I ended up building a team to go after Latin America, took on leadership roles and so on, till I left, and then, you know, public companies, so on and so forth.

[00:11:34] Sean: You know, one thing that you had mentioned just now, Fernando, that I found really interesting is that I think you’re right in that I can’t recollect any sales classes at Haas or at maybe most business schools. And I’m trying to wrap my head around that idea because, clearly, there’s plenty of marketing classes and things like that, right? But sales, it’s such a critical component, you know, position role in any company. I do wonder why it’s not covered more. Why do you think that is?

[00:11:46] Fernando: In my mind, I think that part of it is sales has this negative connotation, right? Like, sometimes people are, like, “Oh, you have salespeople, there’s Lizzie,” whatever. But, you know, there’s no business without sales. It is a core function, right? And the fact that it doesn’t get covered enough, I think is, it’s unfortunate. Dmitry and I are trying to help out. There’s another couple classes now. Like, the way I met Dmitry, by the way, was, I was, as an alum, you can actually audit some classes, right? Like, an email gets sent out. I don’t know if everybody knows. I saw one on channels of the attribution. When I was at New Relic, I had built our first reseller program, but I had never been, like, properly trained on it, you know what I mean? It was like, “Oh, I learned about this at HP. I think it’d be valuable here.” So, I started building it. But then when I saw it being offered as a class, I’m like, I like to see… you know, I like to compare notes between, like, what I did and what should be done, and so on. Dmitry was actually the TA in that class. And we ended up finding out that, like, we were working sometimes for competitors. He was working for Cisco when Cisco had acquired a company called AppDynamics. AppDynamics competed with New Relic. So, like, we hit it off pretty quickly. And now, he’s teaching the sales class, and I’m helping out.

But anyway, back to your question, why? I don’t know. Not a lot of people go into sales right after business school. But I was sharing this with someone recently. Eventually, you do end up in sales. Like, if you go into consulting and you make it to partner, you’re in sales now. You know what I mean? If you make it to the C-suite, like, if you’re the CEO, you’re in sales.

[00:13:38] Sean: Yeah, banking, yes, everything.

[00:13:40] Fernando: If you’re in banking, like, you’re buying and selling businesses, but anyway.

[00:13:45] Sean: No, I mean, if you’re a director, a managing director, yeah, you’re in sales. That is literally your job, is to sell your bank’s services.

[00:13:53] Fernando: So, we might as well get trained on it.

[00:13:56] Sean: I know. And it’s interesting because, you know, we cover a lot of things at business school about, you know, product management, obviously, product marketing management, right, and marketing. But you’re absolutely right. And sales is such a crucial skill, back to your original point, how it has a lot of transferable skills to it, right? Because, you know, when you network, even in business school, even when you’re dating, the way I see it, it’s you’re selling yourself, right? You have to sell yourself. You have to learn to sell yourself. And a lot of people don’t realize that, you know, sales skills, not just, you know, selling cars and things like that, but it’s an everyday skill.

[00:14:35] Fernando: Yeah. I remember, when I was in business school, we went to a conference, what at the time was the National Society of Hispanic MBAs. They changed names. But the CFO for that was there for one of the business units. And he talked about… like, finance guy, right, accounting, finance, and so on. But he went into sales for a couple of years right after he graduated. And he talked about how much those skills helped him get to a CFO role. Because many people knew, you know, the finance technical aspects of things, but not so many people knew how to interact with other parts of the business. And those are sales skills, right?

So, that was part of the reason, like, you know, that the conversation with Peter that I decided to go into sales, I say, “Hey, I’m going to give these a couple of years and then we’ll see what happens.” And I never left. Like, the big tech scout as well. Once you have a good year, you’re like, “Yeah, this is not terrible.”

[00:15:34] Sean: Yeah, yeah. You just made me think of the book How to Win Friends and Influence People. I hadn’t read it in years, and I decided to reread it again lately. And I think one of the biggest things, reading it this time as an adult, as a post MBA grad, was, you know, one of the core ideas in sales for me, which is really understanding what it is that the other person wants, right? What are their motivations? Because a lot of times, when we think of sales, or I think what people think of sales without having that experience, they’re thinking of, like, “I’m trying to convince someone to buy something from me,” versus, “I’m trying to convince someone of something they actually need to fulfill, you know, a pain point that they have.” And it’s just, it’s like, being able to see that, I think, is so important. But following up on that thought, I would love to hear from you, you know, kind of, what are some sage wisdom that you’ve gained in sales over the past two decades?

[00:16:38] Fernando: Sage wisdom?

[00:16:39] Sean: Or any thoughts or advice, yeah, things you learned.

[00:16:41] Fernando: I think one that came to mind as you were sharing that story was something that I learned during sales training at IBM and keeps coming back, right, in different ways. Many times, it is not about, you know, trying to convince someone what you say or so on, about saying the right thing, it’s about asking the right question. And the same thing applies to leadership in many ways, right? Like, when you’re trying to lead a team and you’re giving them the answer, you’re like, “Oh, this is how you should do it. Let me try to convince you this is the way.” You’re not as effective as when you ask the right questions and they figure it out. So, to me, like, that’s really important in sales, in leadership, in life in general, right? Like, trying to figure out not what’s the right answer. Yeah, share that answer. What’s the right question? So that, you know, whoever you’re working with can figure out what’s the right answer for them.

[00:17:38] Sean: Yeah. I mean, as a sales director, what are some other things you try to teach or impart on your team?

[00:17:45] Fernando: I think you were also implying this. Customer centricity, like, thinking about your customer and, like, really empathizing with them. I think it’s key. I’ve been reading a book on sales, The Qualified Sales Leader. And it has this really interesting story about, you know, someone — sales guy. It’s kind of a fable, but sales guy goes to this wise old guy, and he’s like, “Hey. You know, like, look at that window. You see all those people walking by.” It’s, like, yes. I’m like, “What are they?” They’re customers. Great. Now, look at that mirror. What do you see? It’s like, “I just see myself. Like, wait a second. Like, both are made out of the same thing, right? Like, what’s happening?” Well, there’s silver behind the mirror that prevents you from seeing what’s on the other side.

So, that’s also important, right? Like, when you’re too focused on the results, like, hitting your number and so on, and you forget about, like, all right, you’re really into this to help someone achieve a goal, then that you lose track of what’s important. And it ends up preventing you from being successful. It’s counterintuitive, right? By focusing on the results, rather than, like, helping someone out, you don’t hit those results.

[00:19:03] Sean: I see that. And on that note, too, I’m really curious to hear, you know, sales is perceptively a challenging job, right? Because you have to deal with rejection. You probably, you know, haven’t had to deal with a lot of rejections in your life because you’re such an amazing salesperson. But I would love to hear, you know, if you have any advice on over the years, how you’ve learned to deal with and overcome, you know, rejection in the sales process.

[00:19:36] Fernando: It’s part of life, you know what I mean? Like, we’re all, like, raised in this way where, like, you’re afraid of rejection. Like, people are generally afraid of rejection. Like, it’s painful. But I think it’s, like, you know, working out, right? You go to the gym. And if you do have a good workout, you’re going to be sore, right? But if you’re afraid of being sore after going to the gym, then, like, you’re never going to have a good workout. So, I think rejection is the same thing.

Like, you can look at it from a mathematical point of view, right? Let’s say your conversion rate on, like, reaching out to people is 5%, right? That means you need to make 100 calls to get 5 people to engage with you. When you’re going through them, you know you’re going to get 95 rejections. You might as well just go through them and don’t take it personally, right? Like, people are not rejecting you because of you. They’re rejecting you because maybe they’re busy. Maybe they don’t need what you’re offering. Maybe, you know, whatever. Like, you don’t know. If you take it personally, then, yeah, it really gets to you. But if you’re like, “Hey.” You can build whatever story you want in your head.” Like, most people build a story, like, “Oh, they’re rejecting me because my sales pitch was not right,” whatever. You’re like, “No, it’s just a numbers game, right? “I need to get my 95. You know, I need to wear off my bad luck so I get to my good luck.” I tell that to my kids. Like, you just got a really bad day, great. You’re going to have a good day tomorrow because, you know, statistically, you can’t have bad days all the time.

[00:21:12] Sean: I like that. You have to wear off your bad luck so you can get to the good luck.

[00:21:16] Fernando: Exactly.

[00:21:18] Sean: For me, it’s, you know, eating all the things on the plate that I don’t want to eat and then finishing with my favorite stuff.

[00:21:25] Fernando: Yeah, it’s the same thing.

[00:21:27] Sean: Do you just not take it personally just by, you know, rationalizing that it’s just a numbers game? Do you have any other strategies for yourself over the years?

[00:21:34] Fernando: Also, like, the story you build, right? Like, we all build these stories. Like, things happen. And as human beings, we’re used to building stories around these things that might have been related or maybe not. So, rather than building the story that something happened, like, you didn’t like the result, it happened because of you, you can build any other story, right? Like, yeah, build a story that this person is not the right person or it’s not the right time, but they’re busy. Nothing to do with me.

[00:22:05] Sean: I like that mentality a lot. I’m so glad you bring this up because it’s one of the things that, I think, in life, I’ve been trying to practice more of, you know, when somebody cuts you off, right, the story in our head is immediately like, “They’re trying to cut me off,” right? Or, “They’re trying to, you know, like, harm me. They’re trying to do something against me.” When the reality is, like, “Hey, maybe they really have to get somewhere and, you know, there’s a family emergency.” And literally, it’s just telling yourself a different story and then I’m able to just let the whole situation go without getting worked up about it.

[00:22:40] Fernando: Exactly.

[00:22:40] Sean: I never thought, you know, that applied to sales, but that makes a lot of sense. I’m really glad that there’s this science and art of selling class at Haas. How long has it been around?

[00:22:51] Fernando: This is going to be the third year, if I’m not mistaken.

[00:22:54] Sean: Wow.

[00:22:55] Fernando: Yeah, it might have been there in different iterations, but, like, you know, with Dmitry and myself, this is the third time.

[00:23:03] Sean: I don’t remember seeing that class at all when I was at Haas. That was four years ago.

[00:23:09] Fernando: You missed it. Maybe you can audit the class, Sean. We’d love to have you there.

[00:23:15] Sean: I think I actually will. On that note, too, speaking of Haas, you had mentioned before our call something else is very new, the Latinx alumni group.

[00:23:25] Fernando: Yes.

[00:23:26] Sean: Can you talk a little bit about that?

[00:23:27] Fernando: It’s called Somos Haas. So, surprising enough, there was not an alumni group for people that identify as Latinx, right? Not an official one. There are groups, when you’re at Haas, right, either as an undergrad or a business school student and so on, but wasn’t an alumni group. And a core group of people got together and started working on it. And we launched it back in September for Hispanic Heritage Month. So, now, we have a Latinx alumni group. We’re getting things going. I’m actually co-chairing a group to build relationships between alumni and students and, eventually, prospective students. And we’re trying to figure out, like, all right, how do we build community, right? How do we pull together, you know, you were telling me there’s, what, 45,000 alums or something like that? How do we pull together those that identify as Latinx and those that support this group, by the way, and build a community?

And it’s a work in progress. It’s very new for now. We have an event. I don’t know when this will be published, but the undergrads have something called Sharing Wisdom Across Generations. They’re asking us to help put together a business track. And this goes for all of the undergrad population at Berkeley. So, we’re putting together a couple of panels with alums. And then, in the spring, we’ll probably take that to different industries, functional areas to give people access to alums, longer term, start thinking about, like, mentorship programs and things like that.

[00:25:07] Sean: That’s fantastic. Having this mentorship is very important. And it actually made me wonder, you know, your own personal life experience as an immigrant. Because I moved to the U.S. when I was seven. So, I don’t even consider myself as much of an immigrant in terms of struggles. But, you know, I’m really curious, what were some of the challenges that you faced back then when you moved?

[00:25:29] Fernando: I think there’s a couple, right? Like, even before I moved, being the first one in my family to attend college, one of the biggest challenges was you just don’t know what you don’t know, right? Like, when you’re trying to decide, “what do I do with this degree,” like, there were whole areas, like, consulting, for example. I had no idea that people could go into consulting and, like… you know what I mean?

[00:25:57] Sean: Same. Yeah.

[00:25:58] Fernando: I just didn’t know. So, that was one challenge. You know, when I was at Haas, like, you were like, “Oh, my God, I’m meeting all these people with all these backgrounds from, like, all over the world.” Like, that opens up your eyes and ears and your mind to, you know, whole menu, right? That was awesome.

The other challenge that comes to mind is, when I first moved that first year with stuff because, like, I left behind family, friends, you know what I mean? And you’re here in a new country and you’re rebuilding all that. And in the beginning, it was pretty lonely, right? Like, it was like, all right, wait a second? Like, where’s everyone, right?

Now, over time, you build that network. And then you realize that, even if you really miss what you had back home, people have moved on and you’re missing something that no longer exists. Or, like, you know, my group of friends from when I was growing up, like, you know, high school and college, they’ve all spread out. Like, some of them to the states, some of them moved to different places. So, you know, now, home is here.

[00:27:10] Sean: One more question for me was, do you have any book recommendations for people?

[00:27:14] Fernando: Ah, yeah. So, a couple, there’s one book, and this is not your typical business/sales book, but it really did change the way I look at life. You might have read it already. Viktor Frankl, Man’s Search for Meaning.

[00:27:33] Sean: Yeah.

[00:27:34] Fernando: It’s a psychology book, but to me it was super important because there’s many aspects to it. But the core one that stuck with me was, hey, you can’t always control what happens to you, right? To me, he was a survivor during the holocaust. But you can always control how you react to it. And I think that’s key, right? It, kind of, ties into what we were talking about, the stories, you change the narrative.

[00:28:00] Sean: [crosstalk 00:28:01].

[00:28:01] Fernando: Exactly, yeah. There is, on the management side, I really like Multipliers by Liz Wiseman. I don’t know if you’ve read it.

[00:28:12] Sean: No, I’ve not.

[00:28:12] Fernando: It talks a lot about, also, something we covered earlier, like, as a leader, you’re not there to provide the right answer. You’re there to help your team find it, right? And even though you may know what you want them to do, it’s them figuring it out. And by doing that, you help them become more capable and you get more out of them than they could by themselves, right? You become a multiplier. I think it’s super interesting.

And then, right now, I’m reading The Qualified Sales Leader by John McMahon. If someone wants to get a little bit deeper into, all right, what’s this life as a sales guy, technology, and, like, you know, maybe you want to look at this from a marketing perspective and dealing with sales, maybe you’re in upper management and want to know, like, how to make it more predictable and so on, it’s a pretty good book. It’s pretty lightweight because it’s like a novel, a guy who goes and consults with a tech company and starts walking you through, like, different scenarios and so on. I’m liking it quite a bit. Those are three that I think, right now, like, come to mind.

[00:29:19] Sean: Awesome. Was there anything else that you wanted to talk about or mention that I didn’t ask you?

[00:29:24] Fernando: So, being a sales guy, I do have an ask. There’s always an ask. If there’s people out there that have experience in sales and want to share it with Haas students, please do reach out, because we’re looking for speakers for our sales class. So, there’ll be opportunities to go and, like, you know, share your experiences. It’s usually in-campus, but sometimes we can do things remotely.

The same thing, if they want to share, and this is broader than sales, their experience in specific industries or functional areas with Latinx students, please do so as well. We’re organizing panels and we’re organizing a few activities for people to have access to the network.

And lately, like, if someone wants to geek out about building, go to market motions on technology and, like, early tech, or if they want to help, like, feel free to reach out, I’m available. And I love to have these kinds of conversations.

[00:30:26] Sean: Awesome. We’ll definitely put some of the links to the books you mentioned and where people can reach you on LinkedIn. I’ll link to your LinkedIn in the podcast notes.

[00:30:36] Fernando: Perfect.

[00:30:36] Sean: Well, thank you so much, Fernando, for coming on the podcast today and giving us your time. Really appreciate you.

[00:30:42] Fernando: No, thank you. This was a great conversation. Really appreciate you, Sean. Thank you. Nice meeting you.

[00:30:48] Sean: Thanks again for tuning in to this episode of the OneHaas Podcast. If you enjoyed our show today, please hit that Subscribe or Follow button on your favorite podcast player. We’d also really appreciate you giving us a five-star rating and review. If you’re looking for more content, please check out our website at haas.fm. That’s spelled H-A-A-S.F-M. In there, you can subscribe to our monthly newsletter and check out some of our other Berkeley Haas podcasts.OneHaas Podcast is a production of the Haas School of Business and produced by University FM. Until next time, go Bears!