Liz Castelli, EMBA 24 – Designing Experiences with Impact

(Transcripts may contain a few typographical errors due to audio quality during the podcast recording.)

[00:00:00] Sean Li: This episode of OneHaas is brought to you by the Haas Fund, fueling opportunities for our students, faculty, and strengthening our Haas community. Join us in making an impact today at haas.berkeley.edu/give.

Welcome to the OneHaas Alumni Podcast. I’m your host, Sean Li. And today, I’m joined by Liz Castelli. Liz is the CEO and co-founder of Tinsel Experiential Design. And of course, she is a recent grad of our Berkeley Haas Executive MBA program. Welcome to the podcast.

[00:00:45] Liz Castelli: Thanks. I am so thrilled to be here and to get a chance to hang out with my fellow Haasies again. I miss it every day.

[00:00:55] Sean Li: Go Bears.

[00:00:56] Liz Castelli: Go Bears.

[00:00:59] Sean Li: So, Liz, we’d like to start these conversations hearing about your origin story. Love to hear where you’re born, where you’re from, how you grew up.

[00:01:07] Liz Castelli: Sure. It’s funny. It, kind of, reminds me a little bit of my application essay for Haas. I will say that I grew up, you know, on the south shore of Long Island. My dad actually graduated from college when I was, like, 11. So, that was pretty cool. He drove buses for a while. And my mom was a teacher, a speech pathologist specifically, at the school district.

And so, you know, we, kind of, came from a stock of people that, you know, belonged to unions. And business just was never on my map or on my radar of something that was, like, a job that you could have, you know. And so, I went to school for science. And I ended up becoming a science teacher.

And I worked in New York City teaching middle school science in Harlem and in Washington Heights for, like, eight years. And then during that time, I had some friends from college. I went to GW for undergrad. And we were just hanging out on Lower East Side for Taco Tuesday back in the day. It was, like, 15 years ago now. And we were, kind of, complaining a little bit about our jobs.

And I love teaching. I will always say that, if the opportunity hadn’t presented itself to, sort of, start a company with friends, I would have been happy being a teacher. I really loved it. And I have a lot of respect for people who are in that profession. I still say it’s the hardest job I’ve ever done, like, you know, and I run a company right now.

[00:02:27] Sean Li: What grades?

[00:02:29] Liz Castelli: It was, like, fifth through ninth. So, it was a middle school, and then I did a little bit of high school, intermittently, but my sweet spot was, like, the middle schoolers. They’re not jaded yet. You get to teach them how to be explorers, you know. And they’re a fun group of kids. And I was a bartender. And that’s how I paid my way through grad school. And, like, bartending and teaching middle school is, like, a lot similar. You got to know how to deal with those types of personalities, you know.

[00:02:56] Sean Li: Yeah. What inspired you to become a teacher? And I think you’re the first teacher I’ve ever interviewed.

[00:03:02] Liz Castelli: Wow. You know, it’s funny. When I realized that I wanted to be a teacher, it was after I had worked in labs. I worked at the Smithsonian in a mineralogy lab, looking at eclogites. And I was, like, counting the minutes of the day every time I would do titrations. And, like, you know, my P.I., all she did was write papers, you know. And I’m like, “Well, I don’t really like writing, so I don’t know if research is for me,” you know.

[00:03:25] Sean Li: This is in college?

[00:03:26] Liz Castelli: This is in college. Yeah. So, I spent some time researching. I was pre-med tracked. And I did really well and loved organic chemistry, but I just knew that I did not want to go through medical school. Like, I saw the kids that were going to go that track and I was like, “Man, I’m exhausted already. Like, there’s no way I’m making it through medical school and residency and all that.” But I was tutoring for a program in D.C. for underserved kids called HEADs UP. And so, I would go to different districts.

And it was the only time I didn’t look at a clock. And I was like, “Well, you know what? If this is the one job where, like, I haven’t been bored yet, like, maybe this is saying something about where I should be.” And so, when I realized that I wanted to be a teacher, I was like, “Well, I’m going to be the best goddamn teacher I can be.”

And so, I was like, “What’s the best school in the country for education?” And I decided to enroll and got into teacher’s college at Columbia. I don’t know. My mentality has always been, like, if you’re going to do something, like, go for gold, you know. And it’s funny. I was never in sports, like, as a kid, you know.

I was more of, like, a musical theater nerd. But once college hit, I think I just, sort of, shifted my mind frame. I ran, like, one marathon with a friend whom I still… We actually work together now. And I joined rugby. And I just was like, “I think there is, like, a different way to look at things.”

[00:04:40] Sean Li: How much do you think of the teaching influence was from your mom?

[00:04:44] Liz Castelli: Oh, gosh.

[00:04:45] Sean Li: Because you said she was a school pathologist, right?

[00:04:46] Liz Castelli: Yeah. She was a speech pathologist. My mom, like, held it down for our family for a while, you know. My dad was in the Navy, and he served, and then he worked at the airlines, and he worked at Grumman in defense in the ’80s. And so, he was an aircraft mechanic and electrician. And, like, you know, Grumman defense moved off of Long Island.

And so, he was like, “Well, maybe I’ll go to college.” And then he became an engineer. And then he worked for Standard MEMS and did processing chips. And then all that got outsourced to, you know, Taiwan. And so, he, sort of, has found himself, sort of, having to reset. And he ended his career as a technology teacher. And he was like, “Man, this is the best job in the world,” you know.

Like, both my parents just loved being teachers. I was talking to him last week. And he went back for, like, another retiree party. He’s like a celebrity in the district that he… you know. Like, I think there’s something special about educators. And a lot of the students that I worked with had reached out to me afterwards when they went to college. And I don’t know. You just have an opportunity to have so much more impact when you’re an educator because you’re affecting so many students’ lives. Like, all of us can remember that teacher that either made us love something or made us, like, never want to look at it again, you know. I loved it. It never bored me.

I just had a way with middle schoolers. I don’t have my own children, which is, kind of, ironic. And maybe they’re saying something there. And I loved the idea of, like, just every student can succeed, you know. And I think, in business, there’s a different shift of how you have to think about what success looks like for your team versus what it was when I was a classroom teacher. And that’s been, I would say, an interesting learning and evolution of what it means to be a leader for me in education versus in business.

[00:06:29] Sean Li: Tell me more about that.

[00:06:31] Liz Castelli: When you’re an educator, every student has to succeed in that environment. There’s, sort of, no alternative job that will be a better fit for them, you know. And I think that was my mentality when I first started the company with friends. Everyone that was on was a part of our family.

And it was very, like, we’re a close-knit group of people who aren’t doing this the way that everybody else would because we want to get away from how traditional agency works in marketing. And so, it became this space where everyone that was in the company, it was very small initially, you know, we wanted to keep and continue through. And ultimately, I think it wasn’t serving anyone, you know, that idea of, like, we all have to succeed together.

And I think that what I’ve learned over the years with being a leader is that if it’s not the right fit for someone, either because the work isn’t right for them or the culture isn’t right for them, and our culture is not right for everybody, you know, they are going to be much happier and your team will be much happier and more probably successful if…

And I know it sounds so cheesy because it feels like just like the CEO cop out of, like, you know, you have to manage people out, but I ultimately do believe, and I’ve seen people be happier if they’re not the right fit for our company, which is, I think, the reason that I can believe that, like, that is what is important. And, like, it is the hardest thing to do, as a leader, especially coming from education where it was like no child left behind.

I came up during that, sort of, version of education. And so, you know, having to make that shift and really learn how to have difficult conversations, I mean, that’s one of the greatest things that Berkeley gave me. I thought I was coming for the operations, I thought I was coming for the finance, but actually I was coming for politics and power and difficult conversations. And I can think of, like, 12 different classes where I’m like, “Oh, my God. That’s what I came to Berkeley for.”

[00:08:23] Sean Li: Yeah. Leadership, communication. That is so fascinating because, as you were saying it, I was just trying to conceptualize what you’re actually getting at. And for me, I was like, you know what, wait, what do you mean, you know, students, like, no child left behind, no employee left behind, but what you shared is so true. And part of it is just the full context of students, at the end of the day, been most only one year that you spend with them, right? And you obviously do everything you can to help everyone out. But in a corporate, in a business setting, they’re not leaving after a year to do something else.

[00:08:57] Liz Castelli: Yeah. It’s like, what does their long-term trajectory look like? Who are you tracking for leadership? Who wants to be a leader, you know?

[00:09:04] Sean Li: Yeah. That is so true. And I personally had to learn that the hard way as well, because, as a young leader, you want everyone to succeed, and you want everyone to excel, and you want to help everybody. And that’s part of, I think, why, as entrepreneurs, we want to build companies.

It’s not just for the customers or the product. It’s for the, team, right, the jobs that we create, but at the same time, early on, I realized, without a clear vision for what we stand for, right, our culture early on, it was really hard to figure out if people are a good fit, but as you’re building that culture, as you’re establishing the company and having more clarity on all that stuff, that ultimately helped us realize that we didn’t have the right people in the right seats sometimes, right, or we might have people in the right seat, but it wasn’t the right person. And those were just the most difficult decisions, but to your point, it’s for the better of everybody, right?

[00:10:01] Liz Castelli: Mm-hmm. I do think, you know, when you first, kind of, are thrown into this space of, like, okay, we’re going to make it work, you know. It was two friends from college. And we were like, “Wouldn’t it be fun to start a company?” And one of my business partners, who’s… you know, she was always the, like, futuristic one, and I was always the, like, here’s what’s happening now, you know, she would always be like, “Well, we have to set the culture, and we need to have our core values.”

And I was like, “There’s three of us, you know. What do you mean?” And I think the further we’ve grown and the more we’ve gotten into scaling, now, it’s like I understand why it’s so important to have that. And I will say, post-acquisition, we really needed to, like, reset and reground ourselves and ask ourselves if our core values and the way that we wanted to bring on people was the same or what had evolved because we also had an evolution of leadership post-acquisition.

And so, what was interesting is we did sit down and we really, with the new leadership team, went in and we were like, “Well, what still holds true? And is our mission statement still correct? Is the vision statement still there?” And there were, like, tweaks and little bits of evolution. And I think we, sort of, grew up a little bit in the way that we approached all of those things.

But now, when we go in and hire, every time we have a successful hire, I’m like, “Oh, okay. It makes sense,” because they really do fit in this larger framework that, you know, we, as a collective, have agreed to. And then when we mishire, like, and we do that, you know, it happens, it’s just par for the course, like, in hindsight, you can see how it wasn’t the right environment for that person to be successful, not that that person wasn’t good at their job.

I think that that’s what we’ve learned so much more in hindsight. And frankly, every person that’s left the company, I’d say, in the last six months, because of that clarity of, like, what Tinsel is, how we like to work, and what we stand for, sort of, people have chosen to leave, it’s like we do leave on decently good terms, which I think is, kind of, amazing and I think really speaks to the growth of, like, where we’ve come, especially post-acquisition, and how we’ve, kind of, grown up, if you will.

Like, I think we’ve, kind of, like, been kicking and screaming as we’ve scaled. Like, no, you know, we’re still going to be an agency that is nimble and can pivot. And we don’t do things like other people. And, you know, then you get acquired by a holding company. And you’re like, “Oh, shit. Okay. Here we go,” you know. And there’s such greatness that comes from that, you know, but I think we’re a better, stronger group of a team versus a family now. And there’s a lot of awesome things that can come from that.

[00:12:31] Sean Li: I’m so glad you’re sharing this because I think this is the first time I’ve ever covered culture and how culture or having that vision, right, that clarity of your culture not only impact hiring, but obviously impact letting people go as well or people leaving because it’s…

[00:12:50] Liz Castelli: And I’m not that person. Like, I’m telling you. Like, two years ago, I was like, “Yeah. Cool. That’s somebody else’s job,” you know, like, systems and operations and new… I’m a closer, you know.

But I feel like the further you get in… and I still feel like, you know, new to the game, especially at the holding company level, we’ve only been in two years, but with the relationships, especially the relationships as you go further up and understanding, sort of, how people interact together, and where value is, and how to talk about that, and really being that in between and protecting the team but also empowering them, and then also being able to share with the powers that’d be the good stuff, and how we’re positioning ourselves as a company.

I think, culture, it’s how people stay motivated to do the good work because agency life is not easy, you know. It is a grind. It requires late nights. It requires weekend work. You’re constantly learning about new brands. I think it is the one thing that keeps us together. And we try to have as much allocation for people to go fill their cup.

[00:13:48] Sean Li: That’s amazing. Everything you’re saying just gave me a deeper realization of how important all this really is, especially as entrepreneurs, as small teams, because it… I remember the first time I had to let someone go because he wasn’t a good fit. It gave me so much clarity so that I could take responsibility for having to let this person go versus just blaming the person saying it’s… you know, like, “We’re letting go because you did this,” right? It’s like, no, like, I have a part in this as well, right, as a leader. I hired you.

[00:14:19] Liz Castelli: Yeah. And frankly, what could I do better? Like, something didn’t work. And what is my part in that? And I have to learn, like, what that was and how we learn and adjust. Like, man, I would like to think that I was great at feedback, probably not true, but I do think, every time I hear a piece of criticism from anyone now, it’s like there’s always one bit of truth to something, you know. And, like, that’s the work that I’m trying to do now.

And I think it’s been helping with having difficult conversations, you know, transparency and being able to say the hard thing versus, you know, being nice and letting something go on, which ultimately harms everybody else and the team a lot more.

[00:15:00] Sean Li: Yeah. Well, Liz, we’re this deep in the conversation and we haven’t even talked about what is Tinsel Experiential Design.

[00:15:07] Liz Castelli: Yeah. So, what the heck do we do?

[00:15:08] Sean Li: Tell us, what did your friends start?

[00:15:13] Liz Castelli: Yeah. So, it’s funny. I had gotten married 15 years ago. And we were like, it was awesome. It was fun. It was, like, the coolest party ever. It was in New York City. We managed to do it, like, on a pretty decent budget. And I was like, “This was pretty cool. I could probably do this for a living.” And I was talking to two friends from college. Both of them were in advertising. One was in accounts. One was in creative.

And they were like, “Yeah. We could totally do events.” And at the time, it was event. Experiential, like, wasn’t a thing. Instagram wasn’t a thing. Like, that, sort of, experience economy wasn’t really there at all. And so, we started in social events, which we quickly learned was not the way to scale a company in a business. We met some amazing people. And let me tell you, I know, like, every venue in New York City, like, you know, their elevator systems.

Like, our first event ever was a baby shower in Hoboken, New Jersey for 600 USD. And, you know, sometimes, my mother… now, she knows, but there was a period there where she’s like, “You’re still planning weddings?” And I’m like, “What are you talking about?” So, that was, like, the first five years of the company. And then we got some really interesting breaks mostly through PR teams. Again, PR, at the time, really held social and events.

And so, we started working with LeSportsac and Elizabeth Arden and Origins. And, sort of, these brands would come to us through their PR teams and would need, you know, experiences. And this was now at the rise of, sort of, the Facebook had already been a thing, but now, you know, Instagram is becoming big. And so, how do brands connect with their audiences? And this was, sort of, the beginning of experiential. And man, we were the redheaded stepchild.

It would go through, like, capital A Agency. It would go through create. It would go through digital. Like, you name it, every other, you know, entity and marketing would get to. And then they’d be like, “I think there’s $3 for experiential.” And now, it’s wild. It’s, like, totally the opposite where everyone is thinking about, how does the customer experience the product, especially now, like, in the rise of AI and there’s so much digital interface.

And, you know, we work with a couple of really interesting companies who their whole thing is technology integration in the physical experience. And so, we’ve done work with GitHub. We did their developer conference for the last three years, and so integrating all of their technology around co-pilot into the user experience and then also teaching enterprise customers, like, what it means for them. That’s, sort of, where we have gotten to in, I think, the experience economy. But at the time, nobody knew, like, what to do with us.

We were three girls from Brooklyn who did events, you know. And I will say we had to turn down projects from really fantastic and well-known planners, you know, planners to The Stars. We turned down amazing gala work, you know, museum work because we didn’t want to be in that circuit anymore and not known for the work that we do connecting brands with their consumers. And so, we’ve gotten some really interesting.

At every six months, there’s a new season at Tinsel we say. And so, our whole thing was saying yes even when we weren’t sure that we could figure it out. We started in fashion and beauty because those were things that were really accessible and close to the PR community and something that, like, three girls from Brooklyn had the ability to have a say in.

And then from there, we got some interesting breaks through the Rockefeller Foundation, doing their 100 Resilient Cities conference, where now, all of a sudden, there’s, you know, leaders from across the nation and we are planning, you know, a multi-day summit, where there’s really crucial and important conversations happening. And I think that’s what ignited the spirit for the people at Tinsel and for us and for me, frankly, to do things that had even greater impact. And so, what does that mean, you know, impact across different industries? I think that, kind of, wet our appetite.

And then we had some really great work with The Body Shop. And they were like, “Hey, we’re actually going to revamp all of our stores across the United States. Can you do that with us?” And we were like, “Yeah, sounds great.” And we did a great job. You know, we outfitted something like, I don’t know how many hundreds of stores they had.

And then we created toolkits for APAC and EMEA and, essentially, like, learned what it meant to be, like, a global solution. And so, from there, again, like, just every opportunity through the 2020 election cycle. Georgia now has laws about what you can and cannot feed people in line for voting because of us, you know. There are really awesome projects that we’ve been able to be a part of over the years. And I think that’s because of the great relationships of my partners, of the great work that we’ve done.

And, you know, even during the pandemic, TwitchCon, you know, like, that huge gamer conference, all of a sudden, they couldn’t do it. And so, they went to us. And they were like, “Well, how do we have our creators be able to connect with their audiences?” But we ended up creating during the pandemic before vaccines using the film industry a whole way of, essentially, creating safe experiences even though we were in the middle of a pandemic.

I mean, I was on a flight with, like, three people going to L.A., you know, learning how to get teams on the ground but also not to have anybody contract COVID at the same time. So, man, every step has been a learning experience. Every step has been saying yes and figuring it out later. And I’m really grateful for, like, all of the amazing people we’ve learned from along the way. And I feel like I’ve lived a thousand years in this life.

[00:20:33] Sean Li: So, okay, kind of, explain to us, you know, what is an experiential… I don’t know how to call it, experiential…

[00:20:40] Liz Castelli: Yeah. Experiential activation or campaign. So, basically, a brand will come to us and say, “We have this idea.” So, Uber came to us, and they wanted to understand how to speak to young people about campus safety and how Uber could be integral to that equation. And so, what we came back to them was an experiential strategy of how do we meet these students where they are on campus and what does Uber safety mean to the teams at Uber? Because there are various different teams.

And so, what we worked on, and this is through rounds of decks in, you know, creative, was this Uber campus safety program where we went to universities around the U.S. and learning more about Uber and what it meant to be safe on campus at the college level. And so, we designed the experience.

Like, it wasn’t just a pop-up tent. It was, you know, Uber branded, and you would get, sort of, social notifications beforehand that this was coming, and you have the opportunity to connect on your phone and win these tokens, and then you’d be able to come to the Uber activation and spend them on either swag or on rides.

And so, through the metrics and the KPIs and the technology that we were able to integrate on those campuses, we were able to understand, sort of, one student appetite for the product, understanding what needs there were from a safety perspective for students and what concerned them most, and then whether or not the experiential that we designed and executed hit the mark from that standpoint. So, that’s, kind of, like, the one, two, three of what it means to do an experiential campaign from strategy and ideation and what is the need all the way through to execution and did we accomplish this thing we set out to do.

[00:22:23] Sean Li: So, are these experiential activations or campaigns, are they exclusive or are they part of some bigger event that you, guys, are part of?

[00:22:31] Liz Castelli: That’s a great question. Some of them are, let’s say, in and of themselves, their own campaign, right?

[00:22:37] Sean Li: Kind of, like, Body Shop, right?

[00:22:38] Liz Castelli: Yeah. That was, like, a one off. You know, it was a huge thing, and we did it, but it was the one thing. So, right now, we’re doing some FIFA work, one of the main sponsors for FIFA. It’s coming to the U.S. It’s basically like, you know, several Super Bowls, I don’t know if you’ve heard about it, across North America. But one of our brands is activating in that space.

And that is a part of their larger overall campaign work and resetting the brand and going after new consumers. They’re standing up a couple of different products at the same time. And so, the FIFA work that we’re doing is part of a larger overhauling campaign for the brand at large. So, it can run all the way. We sometimes work with social teams only. Sometimes, if it’s a big enough brand, they’ll have an entire experiential team.

When it was with GitHub, it really is an amazing program. I have to say, I cried at the keynote because it just feels so good to be integral in connecting people to things that will impact their lives, and I think in a good way. I don’t know. I have my favorites, of course. I love tech. I’m such a dork. I love when we did stuff for Twitch. Like, you know, my nieces and nephews are all into, like, eSports. And so, I have a lot of heart for that stuff. And then we have teams who love fashion and beauty. And, like, God bless, you know.

[00:23:55] Sean Li: Right. I mean, all this really begs the question, you know, you all have been doing this for a long time, you sound like you have amazing clients-

[00:24:04] Liz Castelli: Can you tell?

[00:24:05] Sean Li: … you’re very experienced, right, it just, like, why the executive MBA?

[00:24:11] Liz Castelli: That’s a great question. It was funny. My cousin, so the one person in business in my family. Him and his wife are awesome. They worked in pharmaceuticals in New Jersey and then got some, like, really interesting opportunities out West with Apple. And they were, like, “We’re moving the whole family.” And they were the first group in our, like, extended family to move out of the tri-state area and to, like, move over into that space in business. And so, he’s the only person in my family.

I’m like, “Well, let me talk to my cousin, Matt, about business,” you know. And I’ve made this company, but I felt like I didn’t really know what I was doing. And so, now, it was, sort of, my turn of, like, well, if I’m going to be able to, like, exist as this person who started a company and it is successful, I’d like to feel confident enough in a room of other people who run businesses and know what I’m talking about. And I do for my own self, but I’ve always done it by learning the hard way or by learning from other people that we’ve hired. And I think that I wanted to know that what I had done was right. I don’t know if that makes sense, you know. I wanted the, sort of…

[00:25:21] Sean Li: Some internal validation, right?

[00:25:23] Liz Castelli: I think so. What’s hilarious is I’ve never had, like, a political bone in my body for, you know, running for student office, but myself and another classmate ended up becoming the class presidents at Berkeley. At the same, I’m like, “Who am I?” You know, like, I don’t really have a lot of school spirit, but now I’m like, oh, my, it was the greatest experience, and I think it really taught me about what matters.

I mean, there were people who have stroke centers named after them in my cohort. There’s fighter pilots. And yet, everyone wants to start a company. And I’m like, “But why? It’s really hard. Like, why do you want to start a company, you know?” And I think being, like, one of two entrepreneurs in our entire class of 75 who have made companies and then were going to business school almost gave me this, like, different perspective on, like, what I have.

And bootstrapping it in that way was so valuable. And I don’t even have the typical, like, tech-world startup experience. I did not raise money. I did not raise funds. Like, every day, it’s like, “Okay. We made this thing. Now, we have to make sure we make payroll.” And I was the one who was on the phone, you know, pretending to be a lawyer, like, you know.

And I think having those experts in HR and those experts in operations and everyone in your class, like, just has this immense deep knowledge that I can turn around and, as a business owner, like, be like, “I got a question for you,” you know. From negotiating a contract to hiring someone, like, all of a sudden, I have this amazing board of directors and people that I feel confident making decisions because I have this amazing group of humans to depend on. Again, I thought I was coming for, “All right. I’m going to get better at finance.”

Like, I know a P&L, but now I’m going to really know P&L, you know. And, like, now, I can talk the talk in a way that I feel very confident and I walk into rooms… I was talking with our… He’s in charge of acquisitions for Stagwell, our parent company. And I can have a coherent conversation with him where I’m like, “What are you looking at?”

[00:27:18] Sean Li: That’s amazing. It is absolutely amazing. So, what is one of your most memorable moments at Haas?

[00:27:25] Liz Castelli: Oh, my gosh. There are so many. So, I enrolled in the program, you know. I studied for the EA exam during the pandemic, you know. We’re experiential. And there was a moment during the pandemic where we were like, “Uh-oh,” you know, “What’s going to happen?” And I was like, “Well, maybe I’ll go to business school. That’ll be great.”

The pandemic actually ended up being some of our best years on paper ever because we had these really amazing opportunities and we made an outsized impact on a couple of different programs and projects. And then I found myself in this position where my two business partners and I… Again, we’ve been great friends, but we have, kind of, come to a crossroads around everybody, kind of, needs something different at this point.

And so, kind of, phenomenal, we found an amazing team of bankers who worked with us. And I’m very lucky with… And I’m not saying this just because it’s, you know, out there on paper, but the folks who acquired us and my boss, I’m very lucky. Like, they are very invested in us succeeding. And I feel like I just have a really open and honest relationship.

And we are on the same page at all times, which is, like, I don’t know how I lucked out so much, but I’m very lucky to have the group above me that I do. So, I was at a point where I was able to decide whether or not I wanted to include the GNAM in my elective classes. And I was like, “I never did study abroad as an undergrad, so I am going to do this, come hell or high water.”

And I was like, “I really hope the Brazil sleeping on the Amazon will not be the one that everybody wants.” And nobody wanted the Brazil trip. And I’m like, “You, guys, this is the chance of a lifetime. Why do you want to go to Yale? You can go to Connecticut anytime you want.” Anyway, you know, real estate in…

[00:29:02] Sean Li: Yeah. By the way, I went to Brazil as well.

[00:29:04] Liz Castelli: You did.

[00:29:06] Sean Li: But not for GNAM. It was for the part-time program. We had a Brazil trip. It’s called SIV, study international visits. Anyway, doesn’t matter.

[00:29:13] Liz Castelli: That’s so cool. I love that you and I are on the same page about, like, Brazil is where it’s like…

[00:29:16] Sean Li: Oh, yeah. [inaudible 00:29:17].

[00:29:17] Liz Castelli: I loved it. I loved Rio. I loved São Paulo. Man, it was so cool. Basically, we were getting to the end with our acquisition. We were getting to the part of we were going to have to sign. And everyone… like, man, it was, like, so high stress. I was like, “This cannot be happening. I’m going to be in Brazil when this thing signs.” And so, I’m like, “How will I ever manage to get cell phone service or internet? Let me bring a Starlink with me.”

So, I borrowed a Starlink from a friend and lugged it into the Amazon being like, “This thing is going to be great.” In the last town we were in, we’re like, “Okay. This is it. We’re going to be signing.” So, I was like, “Great. I’ll set up the Starlink at this time and you can send through the paperwork and blah, blah, blah.” So, we’re in the middle of the Amazon.

I’m trying to set up my Starlink, and it doesn’t work. Like, somehow, the country codes were off or what, and I cannot get this thing to work. So, like, as part of the education component, we came into this, like, small, little village area where we were learning about how they died, you know, reads and how they made all these awesome handicrafts and, sort of, life on the Amazon.

And I had seen a kid in a school clothing. And I was like, “I wonder if there’s, like, a school around here,” because I’m freaking out because I’m not able to execute this contract. And so, I follow this little kid into the jungle and being like, “Maybe there’s a school here. I don’t know.” And I came across this little school in the middle of nowhere. And, you know, through broken Spanish, I know it’s Portuguese, I was like, “Wi-Fi, Internet,” you know, “call?”

And so, they shared the Wi-Fi information with me. And in the middle of nowhere, with, like, chickens running around, I’m on the call on the phone with the bankers and, like, the M&A team, and we’re getting… like, I basically signed everything on my phone with chickens running around me. It was nuts. And I came back. And I was like, “We did it,” you know. And no one knew what the hell was going on. But it was a lot. Like, I don’t know if anyone’s ever executed their M&A documents on the Amazon River, but I, zero out of 10, would not recommend.

[00:31:13] Sean Li: That sounds amazing.

[00:31:15] Liz Castelli: Yeah, it was.

[00:31:15] Sean Li: I feel like you could write a book about all this one day. That sounds wild.

[00:31:19] Liz Castelli: Yeah, it was.

[00:31:20] Sean Li: Just the fact that you even found Wi-Fi.

[00:31:21] Liz Castelli: Yeah, it was a shit show.

[00:31:24] Sean Li: That’s amazing. Yeah. So, where are you headed? You’ve gotten the MBA, you know.

[00:31:30] Liz Castelli: That’s a good one.

[00:31:30] Sean Li: You got the acquisition. What do you see next for yourself?

[00:31:34] Liz Castelli: Yeah, that’s a great question. I will say, through my MBA program, I got an amazing executive coach. Like, you know, I’m very out in the open about how, you know, everybody needs folks to help them develop. 

And so, we have an awesome opportunity as far as the placement that we’re in, the fact that folks at Stagwell want to see us succeed, that we have so many agency friends that are able to share with us the opportunities because we are not a capital A Agency. We are an awesome bolt-on, an experiential partner for them because we really know our shit.

And so, I have always thought of myself more as a builder than, you know, this, like, visionary, you know, sort of, futurist, if you will. And so, I know that my skill set is around building Tinsel into a sustainable model at scale within this holding corporation. That’s what I’m excited to do.

I’m excited to see the right teams and the right people and things, sort of, moving in the right direction and taking it from where we were post-acquisition, which was still, I mean, nothing to sniff at, you know. But I think there’s just a different level of complexity and growth that’s there. And I want to see it through.

And I want to make sure that Tinsel is an entity that will stay. So, you know, it’s an insane pace. Again, I love my boss. He is funny. And his thing is like, “Yeah, you know. Well, it’s lonely at the top and one throat to choke,” which he jokingly reminds me of every-

[00:33:02] Sean Li: I’ve never heard that before.

[00:33:04] Liz Castelli: … every quarter end. He’s like, “Well, one throat to choke. Where are we at?” you know, and it’s, sort of, like, a little…

[00:33:08] Sean Li: That’s so good.

[00:33:10] Liz Castelli: It’s hilarious.

[00:33:12] Sean Li: I’ve heard lonely at the top and I’ve heard a lot of other ways of saying that, but I’ve never heard one throat to choke.

[00:33:17] Liz Castelli: Yeah, that’s it. And then he laughs. And then I laugh, too. We have a great relationship.

[00:33:21] Sean Li: That’s so good. That is so good. I should start doing that.

[00:33:24] Liz Castelli: I am excited to think about, you know, what does the next generation of leadership look like? Stagwell does this amazing program where, once every six months, they invite all the next-generation leadership across the different companies to come together and to pitch clients, so, like, American Eagle or… you know. Real clients come in with real problems. And it’s, kind of, a win-win because they know that we’re training our next generation of leaders and also we’re solving a business problem.

So, it usually results in business for Stagwell. And so, my now executive director, who’s amazing, she’s been with me, like, the last 10 years in building so much of this, she and her team got to pitch American Eagle. It’s a competition, by the way. Everything is in advertising. And they won, which I was like, “Don’t you lose. This is our first year in. No pressure, but you better win this thing.”

And now, we have this really interesting relationship, along with the Stagwell teams that also have those partnerships. And so, I want to know how Tinsel evolves, what’s the next generation of leadership there? And don’t worry, Dan, like, I’m not going anywhere. But I think that that’s the exciting thing to me, is, like, how do we keep scaling this thing and how do I bring up other folks into positions of leadership in a way that feels sustainable and exciting because, like, it is a grind. Don’t get me wrong, you know. Being, post-acquisition, in a holding company in marketing and advertising in an agency is, like, not for the faint of heart.

[00:34:45] Sean Li: Yeah, I can’t imagine.

[00:34:47] Liz Castelli: But I’m excited for those folks that are excited and hungry and frankly are lapping me at this point, you know. Hire people that are better than you, right? That’s my new main goal.

[00:34:55] Sean Li: Absolutely.

[00:34:56] Liz Castelli: I’m like, “Are you better at that than me? Come on. Get in here,” you know.

[00:35:01] Sean Li: On that note, too, curious, what kind of clients are best for Tinsel?

[00:35:06] Liz Castelli: I love that question. Yeah. Man, we really love working across so many different brands and initiatives. You know, we’ve done a lot of work in the nonprofit space. We’ve done a lot of work in the politics space. We’ve done a lot of stuff for tech. We are currently doing a lot of work for tech, which is really fabulous. And then we have a lot of partners in the alcohol and liquors and spirit space.

So, again, I mean, I think that if there is a need for a brand to make a connection with an audience, that is when you bring in an experiential team because those are the folks that are the experts at connecting people and having them leave with that feeling of, like… It’s funny. The marketing professor, actually, at Haas, he, sort of, talked about, like, a product has a function, right, at its base level.

You put on the shoes, and, like, cool, you can go running, but when you think about what, let’s say, Nike does, right, as you get higher and higher up, it’s more than just that. Now, you can go faster. So, you think differently about yourself. Maybe your self-esteem changes. All of a sudden, you see yourself as an athlete. And now, this thing that provided you a service, being able to run, now you’re connected with on, like, a more of a, “This is who I am, and this is how I express who I am. I am a Nike athlete.”

Like, you’re like, “Cool. I’m fighting the good fight.” And so, I think that we have a lot of fun trying to figure out where that connection and, like, meaning happens for folks because that’s the only thing that will actually resonate. You know, when we talk about bringing AI to students, like, cool, but how are we actually going to make their lives easier, better, and how are we going to better equip them to be participants in the economy after they graduate college? I think those are the types of questions that we prefer to answer when it comes to connecting brands with audiences.

[00:36:47] Sean Li: I love it. Well, lastly, was there anything else that you want to talk about that I didn’t get a chance to ask you?

[00:36:54] Liz Castelli: Man, I want to just give another plug for Haas. The first time, I wore my t-shirt. Like, I was like, “I got in. I’m going to wear my t-shirt.” And I was in Santa Cruz. And someone just walked up to me and got in my face and was like, “Go Bears.” And I was like, “What?” Like, I didn’t even know we were the bears. Like, I was like, “Why are people screaming mammals at me?” you know, like. And I think I went from someone who was, like, you know, “This will be interesting,” to, like, “I hope to always be connected with Haas.” You know, I have talked about wanting to help.

And for entrepreneurs who, you know, maybe aren’t going the startup and, you know, round series investing route, I think that there could be a lot more support in the business world in that way. And, you know, I got a scholarship to Haas when I got there. You know, I was a teacher.

And, you know, I’m like, look, I don’t have years under my belt of high earnings here, but I wanted to make sure that I paid that back because there’s some other student who might not have the opportunity to do what I did if I wasn’t able to, kind of, like, pay that forward. I just can’t say enough great things about the Haas program. I mean, I hired my co-president. She now is my director of strategy. And she is killing it. So, like, it is real. The Haas network is real. I talk to them all the time. And I’m just so grateful to be a part of this community.

[00:38:15] Sean Li: Well, Liz, it was such a pleasure having you on today.

[00:38:18] Liz Castelli: Yay.

[00:38:18] Sean Li: Thank you so much for taking your time. Really enjoyed this conversation.

[00:38:21] Liz Castelli: Me, too. Thank you so much. And I look forward to staying in touch.

[00:38:27] Sean Li: Thanks again for tuning into this episode of the OneHaas Podcast. If you enjoyed our show today, please hit that subscribe or follow button on your favorite podcast player. We’d also really appreciate you giving us a five-star rating review. If you’re looking for more content, please check out our website at haas.fm. That’s spelled H-A-A-S.F-M. And there, you can subscribe to our monthly newsletter and check out some of our other Berkeley Haas podcasts.

OneHaas Podcast is a production of the Haas School of Business and produced by University FM. Until next time. Go Bears.

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