Olivia Chen, BS 98 – Revolutionizing The Boba Tea Game

(Transcripts may contain a few typographical errors due to audio quality during the podcast recording.)

[00:00:00] Sean Li: Welcome to the OneHaas Alumni Podcast. I’m your host, Sean Li. And today, we’re joined by Olivia Chen. Olivia is an amazing Haas undergrad alumna of our wonderful school, and she is also the co-founder at Twrl Milk Tea.

Olivia, welcome to the podcast!

[00:00:28] Olivia Chen: Hi, Sean! Thank you for having me. Super excited to be here.

[00:00:31] Sean Li: So, we like to start off these conversations hearing about your origin story — where you’re from, how you grew up.

[00:00:38] Olivia Chen: So, I am actually Bay Area-bred. I grew up in Cupertino, which is where the first boba milk tea landed in the Bay Area.

[00:00:47] Sean Li: Really? 

[00:00:47] Olivia Chen: It is.

[00:00:50] Sean Li: I didn’t know that.

[00:00:50] Olivia Chen: It’s Fantasia, which is still around. It’s in Cupertino. And right after graduating from high school, I went to Berkeley for undergrad. I was undeclared, and I was very, very lucky that I, kind of, joined a business fraternity, Delta Sigma Pi, and then from there I was able to get into the Haas program. And so, I’m very, very grateful. A lot of my marketing acumen, as well as business awareness and just what’s going on globally all really came from, like, being a Haasie.

[00:01:20] Sean Li: That’s amazing. Do you mind me asking, were you born here?

[00:01:23] Olivia Chen: Yeah. So, I’m first generation. I was actually born in the Midwest in Ohio. And my dad did his postdoc at Berkeley. So, I actually am a, I would say, like, a Berkeley baby, because we were in the Berkeley family housing units. There’s baby photos of me playing on the playground. And so, Berkeley has always been a real big part of my identity because my family, my dad, are Berkeley alums. And so, my parents were really, really proud when I actually was accepted into Berkeley. And so, being, kind of, from the Bay Area, you know, when relatives came, the first place we’d take them would be Berkeley to go see the campus. And so, when I got in, it was, kind of, a no-brainer that I would be attending.

[00:02:05] Sean Li: That’s awesome. Do you mind me asking where your parents are from?

[00:02:08] Olivia Chen: My parents are Taiwanese, which is where the land of boba is from. And so, when I started working on Twrl, I actually didn’t really tell them much about it. You know, Pauline and I just started working on this home experiment. And then we created these products, these canned drinks. And when we had the final product, I showed it to my parents and my parents were like, “What are you doing?”

And so, you know, through this journey of working on Twrl, it actually has brought us closer. just because, you know, we have this commonality of Taiwan, which is where I was from, and you’re talking about how we’re highlighting Taiwan… My parents are actually our biggest advocates. They actually, a lot of times, will help us, bag teas, sell products, come to events. So, it’s been really, really rewarding, working on a small business that allows my parents to also celebrate their heritage.

So, we actually have a special edition can that celebrates our third year in business. And it’s a can that showcases Taiwan. And on the can, there’s a lantern. And in the lantern, we actually write the word “Taiwan” in Mandarin. So, that’s a tribute to my own parents for how they see Taiwan written, which is in Mandarin characters. So, there’s just a lot of little things that Pauline and I have done to showcase Taiwan but also honor our heritage.

[00:03:26] Sean Li: Why did your parents move here from Taiwan?

[00:03:29] Olivia Chen: Yeah. So, I think, similar to many, many immigrants, especially from Taiwan, Taiwan, actually, when they were leaving, was not a democracy. So, they were actually in search of a better life. And I am very, very grateful when I think back. Now, I’m a parent myself, you know, I can’t imagine leaving my home and my family, my friends, and then immigrating to a completely foreign country, let alone the Midwest and Ohio.

There’s a story my parents tell that they had, their car broke down in the middle of the night in the winter, and they went to a phone book and they opened up the phone book. And then when they flipped open the pages, they just looked for every Asian name and they called. They just started calling down. And someone actually came and helped them with their car.

And so, when I think back about my parents and the sacrifices that they had to, kind of, leave everything behind and create this new life, I am very grateful because the life I have today is, in part, because they created this new opportunity for us, for my brother and I, to have, you know, a really great education.

And also, the belief. I think that there is this belief in the U.S. that you can do anything you want and you can make something of yourself. And I think, by creating Twrl and starting Twrl, it’s also another testament to my own parents that me and Pauline are creating something from nothing. And we have this ultimate confidence that, you know, we’re going to succeed. We’re going to be the next Starbucks out there.

And so, that’s why, you know, when we, Pauline and I, first started, we didn’t even really tell our parents. We were just like, “Oh, yeah, we’re just going to do it. We’re just going to make this happen. It’s going to succeed.” But I think that is a testament to that immigrant mindset, that you’re going to make it and you’re going to make it happen and you’re going to do a lot.

[00:05:13] Sean Li: That’s amazing. I come from a family of educators, with a lot of education, like us having master’s degrees. I’m really curious, what did your dad come here to study, do his postdoc?

[00:05:22] Olivia Chen: So, my dad was an architect, and then he actually did his math postdoc and master’s in chemistry.

[00:05:29] Sean Li: Okay.

[00:05:30] Olivia Chen: And then from there, he went into Silicon Valley as an engineer. So, as many immigrants who had to change careers, basically, they did it. You know, they found a way. They maneuvered. And they studied. And basically, at the timing, Silicon Valley was booming. There was a need for highly educated people who could just pick up the skill sets and become an engineer. And my dad was able to do that.

My mother was an English major in Taiwan. And when she came to the U.S., she worked as a librarian because she loved books. And then, eventually, she went to get her master’s in accounting and became task auditor for the state of California. So, very much… you know, I think for my own parents, I take a lot of inspiration of being able to reinvent yourself multiple times and then also be successful at it.

But really, they did it to provide, right? They did it because there were job openings in those fields. And, you know, as an engineer, a tax auditor, and so, those were skill sets that were really needed. But you also had to decide that you were going to do those jobs.

And when I think for myself, what I had the opportunity was I was allowed to choose anything I wanted to do. And so, when Twrl came to being, when I was talking with Pauline, I was like, “Sure, why not? You know, give it a Twrl.” I think we’ve been marketing and doing things for a lot of other brands or other people, but not for ourselves. And so, I think we have to credit our parents in instilling, kind of, a confidence in ourselves that anything we want to tackle, we can do that.

[00:07:05] Sean Li: I really appreciate you sharing that story. And part of the reason I was asking this question was, I was, kind of, curious to hear if there’s any type of entrepreneurship or entrepreneurial mindsets, right, inspired by your parents. It sounds like there was a lot, where, just that ability to question the status quo and willingness to take on a new challenge and learn something new, I mean, that is, in my opinion, the essence of entrepreneurship, is constantly questioning things, and if you don’t see something, doing something about it, right? Or seeing an opportunity and doing something about it, whether that’s, you know, for them, a job opportunity, or for you, you know, a new company.

I think this is a really important theme for a lot of people to think about, because people talk a lot about entrepreneurship and intrapreneurship, and it’s just this willingness to learn that I think is so important. You know, I think, amazing personal trait to have that kind of self-awareness. I definitely see that in you as well.

[00:08:06] Olivia Chen: Oh, thank you. Well, I think what we can take from a lot of our immigrant parents is an inspiration, right? An inspiration of perseverance, an inspiration of not being afraid to embark on a whole new territory, a whole new arena. And it’s not easy, right, to go to another country and learn another language and the norms and actually being in a mainstream job where you’re able to work with people of all cultures.

And so, I think that that part of perseverance is something that I think about as we’re building Twrl. There is a lot of challenges when I think of how the evolution of the entrepreneurship goes is, you know, you climb one mountain, but you’re at the bottom of another hill. And so, you just keep climbing these mountains, and then you just hope you can peak at an amazing peak.

And so, that is literally entrepreneurship. That is also the journey of an immigrant, right? Like, you go through these ebbs and flows of mastering language or mastering cultural norms. And so, those type of skills that I’ve seen my parents persevere, they have been very, very motivating. And I think I saw a lot through what they were doing when I was growing up.

[00:09:21] Sean Li: You know, before we jump into Twrl, we’d love to hear a little bit more about your journey after school. You know, how did you end up here? If you could walk us back a little bit.

[00:09:35] Olivia Chen: Yeah. So, I would say, something that I have now looked back on to my career is there’s always been this element of creativity. A lot of people who I worked with would point that out. And I would say, only now as I’m older and I look back, and I said,
Oh, I guess there is an element of creativity that is in all my jobs.”

And so, one of the jobs that I had right after grad school was working at Estée Lauder and I was running product marketing on a global scale in New York. And then I also had the opportunity to do global marketing within China. And so, within that, there’s a lot of elements of, you know, product management and marketing. But I always had this element of creativity that I lended to how I did marketing.

And an example would be we launched a kind of an antioxidant product and Clinique actually doesn’t have any models. And so, when we launched this product on the counters in China, I actually had all the beauty associates wear green aprons. And then we had these huge vases that had, like, fruits and broccoli stemming out. So, when you walked into a department store, like Macy’s or Bloomingdale’s, you would see this huge vase, and it was just something you couldn’t walk away from. And because they were wearing all these green aprons, it really struck a strong visual.

And so, when I think of my career and how I think about how I like to do things, I want to have, like, this “wow” moment, but also something that’s really, really executable, because you have a lot of… you can have a lot of ideas, but they’re actually not very translatable and not very easy for a team to execute or even yourself to execute.

So, how do we stand out from that crowd is very, very important. But most importantly, how do you execute that idea is also the most critical. And you had talked earlier the idea of evolution, right? And when you’re in marketing, you constantly have to be trying something new. I taught myself reels when we first did Instagram. I had never… I literally didn’t know what a reel was three, four years ago. I just learned what a stitch was last October when we went viral on TikTok. And so, it’s constantly learning new technologies and then, kind of, seeing, like, “Oh, what have I done before,” or trying something new.

And it’s okay to fail. I think that’s what most people don’t think about, but I think marketing is about, it’s probably 99% failure and 1% success.

[00:12:07] Sean Li: Yeah, that’s amazing. Any advice or kind of process that you have developed in terms of executing ideas?I’m, kind of, curious to see if you have any thoughts around that, because you’re absolutely right.

[00:12:20] Olivia Chen: Yeah. So, for me, I think the way my brain operates is I tend to visually, kind of, think about the whole project from beginning to end and what my end outcome is. So, in my mind, I visually already know, like, “Oh, this is the outcome I want.” And then I’m actually, kind of, like, literally, in my mind, bucketing, “Okay. Well, how will I get there?” But that’s how my mind works.

I realized, now, as I’ve worked with many different people and different teams, most people don’t think that way. It’s more of sometimes, like, trying to get them to see my vision that I have said, “Oh, this is the outcome I think we’re going to have and this is how we’re going to get to the point.” So, it’s very, very logical as well.

And I would say to someone who’s trying to try this method is really think about, what outcome do you want? What outcome do you want from this partnership? What outcome do you want from this product launch? What outcome do you want from this call? What outcome do I want from this podcast? So, for me, like, it’s very simple. With this podcast, I did want to give back to the Haas community. I wanted to engage with the Haas alumni — also, the Berkeley alumni. And so, that was my simple, kind of, thought of what this podcast would be. But I think, going into something with intention and then thinking, how do you want to get to that intention?

[00:13:40] Sean Li: Yeah. No, thank you so much for breaking that down and sharing that, because, kind of, where I was getting at, the initial thought was, you know, how do you separate from indiscriminate action versus proper execution, right? And I think you, kind of, laid it out perfectly, you know, kind of, that age old adage of begin with the end in mind or something like that.

[00:14:00] Olivia Chen: I think most people should do it with all things in life, you know, not just marketing. But, you know, how do you want to have your personal life? How do you want to have your home situation? How do you want to have your finances? And where do you want to be?

And for me, maybe because in my mind, I visually can see these aspects, I tend to bucket them into a method in my mind. But a lot of times, communicating and iterating and working with the team to have everyone on the same page is probably the toughest part of the execution.

[00:14:29] Sean Li: No, that’s amazing. This is like an Olivia Chen masterclass.

[00:14:33] Olivia Chen: No, I won’t say that. But it’s my way of thinking. A lot of times, my team is like, “What are you thinking?” I’m like, “Isn’t it clear?”

[00:14:43] Sean Li: So, I guess, since we’re, kind of, talking about, I’m really curious, what tools do you use to help the team visualize what you’re thinking as a leader?

[00:14:50] Olivia Chen: To be honest, I’m a phone person. I mean, it sounds that’s a little old fashioned, but Joanna, who’s on my team, we talk, like, 10 times, 20 times a day. A lot of times, I think, for me, it’s more communicating what’s in my head and what’s in my mind. And I do use, like, Google Docs with simple tools, and we have ClickUp, but I tend to be more of audio. And it’s visually in my head. So, I have to have mechanisms to have the ideas come out onto paper. And so, usually, my team records me, or we have read AI notes, and then I also do Google Docs where I, like, write out an outline form of what I’m thinking of, because it’s all in my head.

[00:15:33] Sean Li: So, just to, kind of, walk through your resume a little bit, you were at Estée Lauder Clinique. Did you… it says you were in… that was in Shanghai. Did you live in Shanghai?

[00:15:43] Olivia Chen: I did. So, I worked in New York and I worked on Donna Karan Cosmetics and Origins, and then I had a chance to live in China where I ran product marketing for Clinique. So, that was, like, 280 SKUs, so, every new launch. And what’s different about the New York experience and the China experience is, New York is very much about you decide what’s on the global lineup. So, you’re doing competitive analysis. You’re doing pricing. You’re doing product new launches. You’re actually driving a new product to launch, and you’re producing it for all the global teams. So, North America would have a marketing team. China, Europe, they would all have different local marketing teams for that specific country. But I was on the global team and the global team is just in charge of deciding the lineup and the cost. All the things that you think of an MBA student doing, that’s exactly what we were doing.

But we were project managers. Most people don’t know, but marketing is mainly project management. It’s making sure all the cogs of the wheels of everything that’s coming out. Is the product development team working? Is the packaging team working? Does the marketing team have all the assets they need?

And so, that was a really great global experience. And then when I went and worked in Shanghai, I was then given the products from New York, right. The New York global team had decided. And so, I was in charge of marketing to the entire China country. And so, there, I was in charge of TV ads, outdoor ads, anything that launched with that 280 SKUs. My job was to make sure those 280 SKUs did well. And so, it was very, very exciting because there was so much opportunity. There was so much change. And it was a huge amount of product SKUs to make sure that they were profitable.

[00:17:27] Sean Li: That is a lot, 280. I can’t imagine 28, you know, less 280.

[00:17:32] Olivia Chen: Right.

[00:17:33] Sean Li: So, I noticed you, for a period of the 2010s, you were marketing director at My Blue Dots. Really curious to hear what that was like. My Blue Dots, from what I was reading, it’s a nonprofit, with the mission to raise money to fight cancer, right? What was it like to switch from marketing a major cosmetic company to, you know, such a mission-driven company?

[00:17:56] Olivia Chen: It was wonderful. I actually worked for a woman who was diagnosed with breast cancer, and she was, kind of, cured. And so, she created a nonprofit for herself that she then worked on for radiation oncology.

And so, I loved it. I loved being able to work with a woman who was so passionate who wanted to give back. And so, it was almost like working at a startup because I did everything. You know, I did events. I did marketing campaigns. I did her social media. And so, it was almost a good breeding and training to work on Twrl because it was, you know, you didn’t have huge budgets, you suddenly went from, you know, I had TV ads and outdoor ads and subways, just everything you can think of that I had at my fingertips.

And two, I had very, very limited budget. So, it allowed me to be really, really scrappy in thinking about how I was going to fundraise. And actually, fundraising is the toughest thing you can do, because even though it’s a mission-driven cause, it was basically asking people to donate to a cause that was fairly specific. And not everyone had, you know, breast cancer or radiation oncology treatment. Some people have chemotherapy. So, there’s a lot of different aspects.

So, it definitely, kind of, re-honed my sales skills. But I think I thrive a little bit in that environment. And I realized I liked that freedom. And I always have a lot of freedom at Estée Lauder. I actually have to say it’s a great company. I have a lot of creative freedom of, if I had an idea, you know, that was just crazy out of the whack, of people were like, “Okay, as long as you can get it executed.” But at My Blue Dots and even at Twrl, I have that creative freedom to be like, “Oh, I have an idea. Let’s try it out and see if that’ll work.”

[00:19:44] Sean Li: So, naturally, that leads us to Twrl. I’m really curious about Twrl because the brand looked like it was launched in 2021, which was the midst of pandemic. So, I’m really curious to hear how the idea came about and the timing, I guess.

[00:20:06] Olivia Chen: Yeah. I mean, so, you’re right. Twrl is actually a pandemic baby, or COVID baby. And the idea really came because my co-founder, Pauline, we’ve been longtime friends for 20-plus years, she’s vegetarian. And all the shops closed. So, she started brewing and concocting and trying different plant-based milks and all different types of brewed teas. And so, she said, she reached out and said, “I have a formulation that I think is pretty good. Do you want to work on it together?”

And I thought, you know, why not? Like, I think what we learned during COVID was life was really short and we had always talked about, probably, 15 years ago, we had always talked about doing some type of company together. We were looking at Asian snacks, which really weren’t on the spectrum in any retailer or natural grocer. And so, it had a little bit of an inkling of a seed planted from 15 years ago. And so, when she mentioned it, I was like, “Of course, like, why not? We would be the perfect pair to bring boba tea and milk tea to the masses.”

A lot of naiveness, I think, just not understanding that it’s a very, very, one, male-dominated industry, it’s also very, very inventory-heavy. So, we have a lot of inventory that we have to upfront. But I think, through that journey, it’s been very, very rewarding to be able to bring something like that’s been like this home experiment, essentially, that was brewed out of, kind of, like, there was no boba milk tea available and then being able to have it be in Whole Foods and Sprouts. It’s been very, very, very, very rewarding, I think, professionally and personally.

[00:21:50] Sean Li: Yeah. To your point, everybody at that time was baking bread, learning how to make bread, right? And you were making boba, I guess.

[00:22:00] Olivia Chen: A lot of people were. Actually, I don’t know if, you know, but the boba business blew up during that time.

[00:22:07] Sean Li: Oh, yeah?

[00:22:07] Olivia Chen: Yeah. A lot of people who came out, yeah, because I think a lot of people wanted to have boba at home. And so, all the shops were closed. And so, we were lucky in some ways. You know, even though everyone has gone back to the office, back to school, the ability to have boba at home is here to stay, just like you could still have a boba at a cafe. But a lot of people do want to have it at home. They want to be able to, you know, have a boba party or have a boba fix in the morning or night and not necessarily want to go to a cafe. But if they do, it’s so fun to go with friends. But we’re trying to give the option of, like, you know, you could do it at home, too.

[00:22:45] Sean Li: That’s true. I can make coffee at home, and I can go out and buy it.

[00:22:49] Olivia Chen: Yes. They all coexist. Like, people are like, “Oh, does it?” And I was like, “No, this is something that can… just like you can have orange juice in a breakfast cafe, you can have oranges at home. It’s the same.”

[00:23:04] Sean Li: Yeah. So, tell me more about Twrl and the product. You know, what’s the differentiator? What’s unique about Twrl? What’s the USP, in marketing terms?

[00:23:13] Olivia Chen: Right, right. Oh, how many minutes do I have? Well, so, I think, for our teas, we have four SKUs. And they are single origin, small family farm teas, and we’re powered by pea protein. So, what makes pea protein really unique is that it’s toffee allergen free, it’s plant based, and it’s very low sugars and low calories. And so, teas…

[00:23:33] Sean Li: For the tapioca or…

[00:23:36] Olivia Chen: No. So, in the drinks, there’s no boba inside. So, when we launched during the pandemic, we did these focus groups, very typical of Haas. And so, people had a lot of time during the pandemic. So, we learned that not everyone wanted boba in their drinks. And there were actually a lot of people who didn’t know what boba was. So, essentially, we started our first lineup with three milk teas, which are actually tea lattes. So, we actually envisioned Twrl to be the leader and the dominating kind of beverage company for tea lattes.

And basically, a tea latte is a tea with a non-dairy or dairy component with a little bit of sugar. And that’s the opposite of what a coffee apple latte is, right? Instead of tea, it’s coffee. And so, when I think of Twrl, I think of milk tea, tea lattes. When I think of Starbucks, I think of frappuccinos. That’s how synonymous we want, that, kind of, terminology of, like, milk teas and tea lattes and Twrl to be.

And so, that’s what makes our canned drinks unique, is we’re the first to bring nitro infusion to the tea category. We’re the first to bring pea protein. And so, there’s very little innovation in the last, like, 30, 40, 50 years of the tea category. So, we are literally the first tea brand out of all these big players out there to bring nitrogen infusion, to use pea protein.

So, it has actually changed a lot of things that are happening in the tea category itself. And then, on our two and a half year anniversary, we actually launched our boba topping line. And that really came out about because people, you know, wanted the option to mix and match. People wanted to have boba, like, on their ice creams, you know, on their savory dishes. But they also wanted it with drinks, not just milk teas, but also, like, the kaboochas or the lemonades.

And so, we, then, basically, created five boba toppings. We have, like, a brown sugar. We have a crystal. We have a honey, a strawberry, and a lychee. And what makes our, kind of, line of bobas unique is we have these popping bobas, which are strawberry, lychee, and honey. And these are bobas that are filled with juice. So, you traditionally might have seen them in, like, a Yogurtland or a Froyo, or even a traditional boba shop. But we’re the first to, kind of, make these into the, what we call, single-serve packets. So, they’re just something that you can grab and go, eat as a snack, but then also just pair it with a drink right away.

[00:26:09] Sean Li: That’s brilliant.

[00:26:10] Olivia Chen: Right. And what’s also probably fun that most people don’t know is, like, our red strawberries are actually dye-free. So, California just banned, you know, and the FDA, I think, just banned red-3s, but ours are made with a tomato extract. So, none of our products have the yellow-5 or 6 that’s banned or the red-3s or 40s.

And those are related to, kind of, like, different ADHD or cancer. There’s a lot of different side effects. But trying to be ahead of the curve, thinking about health and what we would want to consume, we made some conscious decisions to, kind of, focus on the cleaner ingredients label, and then how we’re sourcing and producing the products. So, that’s why we chose, kind of, pea protein, because it’s more sustainable, very little water, very little carbon emissions, and then also, kind of, the single order of small thing like cheese, because they really are focused on, like, sustainable farming, regenerative, and then our bobas.

[00:27:09] Sean Li: Yeah. And the quality of the tea. I do have to wonder, how does the boba work? I noticed you have some popping bobas, which I know store pretty well, but traditionally. So, I do have to caveat. When you talk about the first boba shop in, what was it? You said Cupertino?

[00:27:27] Olivia Chen: Cupertino.

[00:27:27] Sean Li: I’m from Michigan, and I worked at the first boba shop in Michigan that opened in Southeast.

[00:27:33] Olivia Chen: That’s so funny.

[00:27:35] Sean Li: So, I actually worked there in high school.

[00:27:36] Olivia Chen: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Then, you’re like a boba expert.

[00:27:39] Sean Li: So, I love boba. I remember making it, right?

[00:27:44] Olivia Chen: Very laborious.

[00:27:44] Sean Li: It’s, like, it’s the tapioca balls, right? It’s a dried powder. And it’s very laborious to make it and very laborious to get it right. So, it’s not overcooked, where it just turns into mush. It’s not undercooked where it’s hard to get that perfect gelatinous consistency.

[00:27:57] Olivia Chen: Those perfectly chewy QQ. We call it QQ in Taiwanese. QQ means the perfectly chewy boba.

[00:28:05] Sean Li: So, I have to ask, how do you do it in a packet? Because imagine nobody’s cooking at home, right? Like, you’re not sending someone from them to cook at home.

[00:28:12] Olivia Chen: Right. So, the crystal, the popping bobas that we have, the honey, lychee, and strawberry, they’re all ready to eat. So, these, you just tear open the packet. You can put them on any drink, any savory or sweet dish. That’s ready to eat. You can even have it as a snack to go, which they’re really delicious on their own.

The brown sugar, you’re completely correct. So, the brown sugar is made of tapioca. And tapioca, actually, has to be heat-activated to get that chewiness, that QQ. And when you think of the word QQ, you can think of al dente, which is very similar to the perfectly cooked noodle.

[00:28:47] Sean Li: That’s right.

[00:28:47] Olivia Chen: So, QQ is our version for boba, like, the perfectly cooked boba, the perfectly chewy boba that you’re talking about. And so, our boba has basically evolved from that bag of, kind of, firm tapioca that requires, like, a few hours to cook or to make it to cook right. Is it the right heat? Long enough? It’s too long. It’s too soft, too short. And so, our bobas are microwavable, or you can put them in a stove top for 30 seconds or less.

[00:29:17] Sean Li: That’s amazing.

[00:29:17] Olivia Chen: And so, it’s just reheating and reactivating the tapioca to get that perfectly chewy QQ taste. So, it’s very fast. So, it’s very, very fast.

[00:29:27] Sean Li: That’s fantastic. I’m going to try this. I’m disappointed in myself that I didn’t order this before our conversation. I did place an order this morning through Amazon. You guys are on Amazon, which is amazing.

[00:29:39] Olivia Chen: We are an Amazon. We do very, very well on Amazon. We sell to, like, hundreds of households a day.

[00:29:47] Sean Li: I mean, you’re branding and just design and everything looks amazing. I do have to ask you, I see four flavors here, you know, for the milk tea. I see Jasmine Pu’erh, Taiwan Style Black Milk Tea, Hojicha?

[00:30:02] Olivia Chen: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:02] Sean Li: Hojicha? Is that how you pronounce it?

[00:30:03] Olivia Chen: Hojicha. Yeah, hojicha means roasted in Japanese.

[00:30:05] Sean Li: Oh, did not know that. Green milk tea and then ube. Do you have a favorite? It’s like… I know it’s like asking for a favorite child.

[00:30:12] Olivia Chen: Well, they’re like my children, so, I would say I love my favorites, but I do have a preference based on, like, the time of day. So, black is the most caffeinated, because black tea is traditional. And we brew three times more tea. So, black has 58 milligrams. So, it’s a cup enough for the caffeine. So, that’s really great in the morning.

[00:30:31] Sean Li: That’s the kind I need.

[00:30:33] Olivia Chen: Yes. So, that is definitely…

[00:30:34] Sean Li: Taiwanese style black tea, I’m going to order 10 cases of that.

[00:30:37] Olivia Chen: Yeah, that’s a strong boost. And then the Hojicha has 40 milligrams and Jasmine Pu’erh has 50. So, I usually use that around 1:00 or 2:00 when you need a pick-me-up. And all teas, not just ours, have what we call L-theanine. And L-theanine is a natural amino acid found in melatonin. So, when you pair a caffeinated tea with an L-theanine-based tea, you get, kind of, a more even kill. So, around 1:00 or 2:00, it’s literally the best pick-me-up because you can feel, kind of, a boost in energy from the caffeine but not feel jitters or have a crash from the sugar because we’re not… we’re only 7 to 9 grams of sugar per can, which is very little.

[00:31:18] Sean Li: Yeah, this is going to be new just morning routine because I’ve been looking for something exactly like this — enough caffeine, low sugar but that’s not coffee.

[00:31:30] Olivia Chen: Yeah. And I have a trick to tell you. I love having the Taiwan style black with the Hojicha together.

[00:31:36] Sean Li: Really? It’s a mix.

[00:31:37] Olivia Chen: I pair the two. Well, because the Taiwan style has chocolate and cinnamon nudes and Hojicha has chocolate and nutty nudes. And so, when I put the two together, it’s really good.

[00:31:48] Sean Li: That’s amazing. You have mentioned something about your brewing process, something about nitro?

[00:31:53] Olivia Chen: Yes, yes. So, all drinks, all canned drinks have… when you hear that pop, it’s actually nitro. But for us, the level of nitro that we add in allows us to have this creaminess that is not typically found in non-dairy products. And so, it gives you that smoothness, creaminess that you crave. And that’s why a lot of cold brew coffees put nitro in their drinks, because they’re trying to mimic what a freshly brewed coffee latte would taste like from a cafe. And so, that type of innovation has never been really found in tea.

[00:32:29] Sean Li: Yeah. I’m really appreciative that you really focused, the company focused on quality tea because one of my favorite aspects of milk tea is actually the tea, you know. Like, I keep seeking a higher quality level of tea. Like, I know, and I just remove all the… I asked for no sugar or, you know, very little sugar, so I can actually taste the tea. So, this is fantastic.

Olivia, we’ve talked about a lot. Is there anything you want to share that I haven’t asked you about?

[00:33:01] Olivia Chen: Well, I think I’d love to maybe just end on how we came up with our name. So, Twrl is a really special name for us because we, you know, think about our heritage and our origin. And an emperor was walking through a garden holding a hot cup of water and a leaf twirled into his cup, and that’s where the first brewed tea was born. That’s the origin story.

And we’d love to, kind of, say that, you know, our brand is steeped, you know, in history, but we’re twirling for the future. And so, we’re really excited to share a little bit more about ourselves. And we’re really, really proud of our heritage as Taiwanese and Chinese Americans. And, you know, Twrl is, kind of, a blend of all of that.

[00:33:49] Sean Li: I can’t help but see the “Taiwan” in the “TW”. Was there any intention in that or just, kind of, an acronym for anything?

[00:33:57] Olivia Chen: No. Actually, you’re the first person who’s ever asked. I’ve never thought about that.

[00:34:01] Sean Li: Really?

[00:34:05] Olivia Chen: No. Actually, that’s actually pretty funny. No, no. I should just say, yes. I just say yes. I should just say, yes. But actually, no, I never thought about that. We should just adopt that.

[00:34:15] Sean Li: Right, Taiwan, RL something and RL, you know… let’s figure that out.

[00:34:17] Olivia Chen: Right, right, right, right. Well, Taiwan in real life.

[00:34:21] Sean Li: In real life, yeah.

[00:34:22] Olivia Chen: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:34:23] Sean Li: Actually, that’s brilliant. I mean, this is… it’s Taiwan in real life in a cup, you know.

[00:34:29] Olivia Chen: Yeah.

[00:34:30] Sean Li: And I love Taiwan.

[00:34:31] Olivia Chen: Oh, yeah. I just… we just came back. Actually, Pauline and I were just there two weeks ago.

[00:34:36] Sean Li: Oh, yeah?

[00:34:36] Olivia Chen: Yeah.

[00:34:37] Sean Li: That’s wonderful. I do have to ask you one more question. Do you have a favorite podcast you want to share with us?

[00:34:43] Olivia Chen: I do have a favorite podcast, Guy Raz, How I Built This. Guy Raz, if you are out there, I would so love to be on your show one day. I have listened to almost every episode. And I think he’s brilliant. I think he asks very brilliant questions. And I would so really love the opportunity to, kind of, share a little bit about Twrl and even just to be able to pick his brain.

But I think what I love about it is hearing other entrepreneurs that have gone through highs and lows and then able to be able to come out with a success story. But every story is a little bit different. And it’s very, very inspiring, as Pauline and I are building Twrl, to, kind of, hear how other entrepreneurs have thought about the same questions and challenges. And so, that’s where I turn to when I’m feeling a little bit low or I just want to feel inspired.

[00:35:34] Sean Li: I love it. I guess I do have a final question. For our listeners, where can we buy Twrl?

[00:35:40] Olivia Chen: Yeah. So, I think we are nationwide in Sprouts for our boba toppings, and then we’re in 10 states for Whole Foods. We’re nationwide in world market. And Amazon is a really wonderful place to find us if you’re in an area that doesn’t have those stores. But if you head to our website, which is just T-W-R-L-M-I-L-K-T-E-A.com, we have a store locator that can find Twrl in your local area. And right now, we’re in about over 2,000-plus locations. So, hopefully, we’re near one for you. And if not, request us at your local supermarket.

[00:36:17] Sean Li: Awesome. So, that’s T-W-R-L-M-I-L-K, so, Twrl, twrlmilktea.com. We’ll make sure to put that in the description as well, link for everyone to click on.

It was such a pleasure having you on today, Olivia. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us.

[00:36:33] Olivia Chen: Thank you for having me.

[00:36:35] Sean Li: And go, Bears!

[00:36:36] Olivia Chen: Go, Bears, of course.

[00:36:38] Sean Li: Thanks again for tuning in to this episode of the OneHaas Podcast. If you enjoyed our show today, please hit that Subscribe or Follow button on your favorite podcast player. We’d also really appreciate you giving us a five-star rating and review.

If you’re looking for more content, please check out our website at haas.fm. That’s spelled H-A-A-S.F-M. In there, you can subscribe to our monthly newsletter and check out some of our other Berkeley Haas podcasts.

OneHaas Podcast is a production of the Haas School of Business and produced by University FM. Until next time. Go, Bears!