Sahar Kleinman, EMBA 2018 – Having a Personal Board of Directors

(Transcripts may contain a few typographical errors due to audio quality during the podcast recording.)

[00:00] Sean: Today, we’re joined by Sahar Kleinman. Sahar is an amazing alumna of our Berkeley Haas School of Business. She is currently a Global Strategy and Operational Excellence Executive at Amazon Ads.

I’m sure there’s a lot more to that, Sahar, but, you know, first off, we’d love to welcome you to the podcast.

[00:29] Sahar: Thank you so much for having me, Sean.

[00:30] Sean: Sahar, we like to start these conversations hearing about your origin story. So, if you don’t mind sharing, you know, how you grew up, where you grew up, I’d love to hear that.

[00:42] Sahar: Yeah, absolutely. So, I was the first-born American, if you will, in my family. My parents originated from Iran. They moved to the States to pursue their education. Their love story blossomed as one that would naturally happen in a place called Jersey. My mother studied computer science and had a double minor in math and accounting, and my father had studied architecture.

And soon, after my mother had me, she had opened up a small boutique. And I think that was a passion of hers very different than, I think much needed if you’re focusing on math and accounting and studies as such. I’ve always had a love for fashion and advertising. So, I think I definitely got a bit of my knack from her. And my father is an artist by nature. And so, I think I’ve become an interesting hybrid of the two.

[01:44] Sean: That’s so funny. What kind of boutique was it? Was it like a clothing boutique?

[01:49] Sahar: It was a clothing boutique, yeah. And so, interestingly, I believe that passion project came to an end, and then she went on to take some financial roles on Wall Street and, kind of, hit the ground running there for a few years.

So, my mom was working on Wall Street and, you know, had me and had to figure out, just like any working mother, where to put me when she was working. And so, naturally, as a Persian American, I would be enrolled into a Chinese school, because it was close to her job near Wall Street.

And so, I grew up with lots of unique experiences, I would say. And I really love my mother for doing that. I think it has helped me develop this global perspective that I have.

So, later, when my brother was born, my mother had jumped in to help my uncle with his photo business. And I would say that that was the first of my hard lessons to be learned as a child, to really learn what it takes to drive a business — and I’m talking all the tasks that you can think of — and having to earn my way to that spot where I could actually start working on developing photos for customers.

[03:12] Sean: Wow. So, you were helping out as well?

[03:14] Sahar: I was, and it started with grabbing that Windex bottle and wiping the windows of outside of the studio.

[03:22] Sean: Man.

[03:24] Sahar: And really learning really early on that it takes hard work to get to, you know, where you want to go.

[03:33] Sean: So, what brought you out to the West Coast?

[03:36] Sahar: I began my career journey with a foundation in finance, came up through brick and mortar, which I still love. And in 2013, I made the pivot to join the world of online shopping. And that’s when I left New York and moved to San Francisco. And that’s, really, when it all clicked into place. I had immersed myself into leading in a technical space, coming from brick and mortar. I was really curious about the online space, which was booming. And I had a leader who really took a chance on me and helped me make a move out to San Francisco, which is where our e-commerce side of the business was operating.

[04:17] Sean: That’s from Macy’s, right?

[04:18] Sahar: Yes, that’s right. And I immersed myself into leading into a technical space, and I had no experience in it, and all the while, trying to bring my marketing and customer insights experience to make an impact.

So, moving into that online space and just seeing, you know, all of the vast amount of data that’s generated and how you, you know, every move that you make on a site that can be tracked, and you now get a better sense of, what are people looking at, what they bought, what they didn’t buy, what page made you leave a site, just endless things to look at, and then looking over all of that and attempting to measure the impact of those improvements based on improvements that you make to a product. So, I just, I loved that test and improve and measure and test and improve again and that whole cycle and seeing how changes to a product, you know, really impact that customer journey to drive really big improvements to a business.

So, doubling down on learning more about that side of the business and that curiosity of wanting to learn more is what really drove me to move to San Francisco.

[05:27] Sean: Did you study marketing or a business in your undergrad?

[05:31] Sahar: I actually studied economics and I had a minor in history. I never thought I was going to… I mean, I always had a love for fashion. You know, having a family of entrepreneurs, finance and economics made sense. That is my foundation.

[05:49] Sean: Yeah. Econ makes a lot of sense, especially for what you were doing at Macy’s because… I didn’t realize until later on, I used to love econ, but, you know, econ’s a social science, right? A lot of it’s based on psychology, actually, right?

[06:05] Sahar: It is. Oh, my gosh. I mean, my time in customer insights was mind-blowing. Just the ways you could drive yourself crazy, looking at how customers are behaving, why are they behaving in that way, and trying to make sense out of what are the things that, you know, what actions can you take to drive different outcomes.

[06:28] Sean: That’s fascinating. So, you moved out to San Francisco, was working at Macy’s. What pushed you to go… I presume, along the way, you decided to get an MBA at Haas. What was the impetus?

[06:42] Sahar: Yeah, I think, sometimes, it’s really important to take a step back and reflect on that 50,000-foot view of the grind, right?

[06:52] Sean: Mm-hmm.

[06:52] Sahar: So, having a bit of imposter syndrome as a team leader, I had reached a point in my career where I was just looking to put myself in a room with the best of the best leaders, coming from all walks of life so we could learn from one another.

I can’t say that that imposter syndrome has completely vanished, but I saw from my experience at Haas that I do belong. And I’m just continually blown away by my amazing Haas family. I mean, I gained a personal board of directors that hold me accountable in all aspects of my life. When I decided it was time to go back to school, I looked at the top 10 programs that were out there. And all it took was one glance at the defining principles and I knew immediately that Haas was really the only school I would connect with.

And then, plus, just being able to spend time on such a beautiful campus, what sealed the deal, really, was when I did some research and just saw how the network truly was everywhere in all walks of life and all types of roles. It was, certainly, the sort of community, the sort of network I wanted to be able to call upon and to be called upon.

[08:00] Sean: What did you mean by a personal board of… you said, personal board?

[08:05] Sahar: Yeah. I mean, I really gained my personal board of directors. What I mean by that is, I feel like, when you’re in your career, you know, there’s a lot of, you can get mentors and sponsors, and there’s something about putting yourself in a room with a bunch of strangers who, all of a sudden, over time, become family. I mean, in our program, we lived and breathed each other extensively. And you get to know people and you share your stories, and you have this unbiased group of people who are just looking to help you unblock yourself, oftentimes.

And so, maybe, during the program, things would come up that were work-related, and then you find yourself just having these go-to individuals that really help you think things through and hold you accountable to the things that you think of doing for yourself and the things that you haven’t even thought of doing for yourself and for others.

[09:08] Sean: I definitely resonate with that.

[09:11] Sahar: Right?

[09:12] Sean: Yeah. If you don’t mind me asking, what did you… I know you spoke at the recent alumni conference, do you mind sharing what you shared at the conference?

[09:20] Sahar: Oh, man, a lot of things. The spirit of it is the importance of staying connected, right?

[09:28] Sean: Mm-hmm.

[09:28] Sahar: It’s, kind of, a no-brainer. When you’re a part of a group of the most successful and brightest individuals that are out there in the world, I would say, why would you not want to spend as much time as you can, both soaking up all the great experience from your peers, as well as getting extra insight on whatever it is that you’re working on at the time? So, really extending ourselves to and offering ourselves to one another, not just when you really need something. So, whatever I’m leading now, I know when I need to find great talent, I look within at my own network first. And so, keeping a pulse on what’s going on at Haas really allows me to do that.

[10:09] Sean: This is actually a really interesting topic, Sahar, because, coming out of the business school, you know, I had my first son, and it’s just started our family. And luckily, in some ways, the pandemic, kind of, helps me stay close to Haas, in the sense that, you know, I was doing this podcast, and because we’re on lockdown, it, kind of, just forced me to reach out or forced people our community of Haasies to reach out to one another and stay connected.

But as time passes by and, right, we get back into the normal routine of life, of family, of whatever it is that, you know, we get into, I’ve been trying to actually figure out for myself and, also, give advice to other people on, how do we stay better connected, right, with the humdrum of life getting in the way and work and kids? Curious to hear, you know, are there any internal motivations that you’ve found useful in staying connected to the network?

[11:09] Sahar: I mean, my time at Haas was so transformative to my entire life that, first and foremost, I would just share with everyone, you know, that I want to continue getting the word out to other leaders who would fit the Haas mold, right, and hope to bring them into our community. And in general, I just think it’s about amplifying our power. Like, we are our community. It starts with each of us. There’s nothing that we’re just taking. We are it.

So, what I learned when I earned my MBA at Haas was that one voice is really powerful, but at times we may find ourselves with great ideas and thoughts and, you know, letting them just, kind of, sit and percolate. So, I want to be able to create that same feeling of being in school and back in the program, even though we’re not in the program anymore. I always want to feel that optimism that I felt in the classroom, that not only can I do anything and lead through anything and be anything, but I want others to feel the same thing.

And so, I want to create these opportunities in the forum for people to stay connected and be able to share what they’ve been thinking about that’s inspiring to them and, you know, have a sandbox of network members to collaborate with to nurture and debate those kinds of thoughts.

[12:25] Sean: How do you go about doing that?

[12:28] Sahar: I mean, honestly, it starts with showing up. We have so many… there are so many communications across so many leaders of affinity groups and, you know, Haas events from every angle. So, I would say, just show up. It can be really nerve-racking, I know, for some folks, especially if they haven’t been connected with their network after some time, I mean, but this community is all about going through the motions of life together and there for you wherever you’re at.

So, if you can go to a networking event or a Haas event, just go. Even if you don’t know anyone who’s going, just go, because you’re showing up for your community and they’re ready to have you.

I remember my first Haas Gala in 2016. I think it was just looking around this amazing room of people and shocked that I had access to some of the most influential people in the Valley. The network is really yours to have, and the ticket is yours. So, dream it up and this community will help. And just always challenge the status quo, right, and avoid the tendency to be complacent.

[13:38] Sean: Yeah. I love this conversation because what you’re sharing is really important. I’ve encountered, you know, a lot of students, actually, or alumni who didn’t feel like they engaged enough during the program. And, you know, some have regrets that they wish they engaged more. They didn’t get… I just heard this comment the other day of a Haasie telling me that, you know, they thought their group was a little bit too clicky and it really limited their ability to connect with other people. And I was thinking similarly to what you just shared, in that it’s never too late, right? You’re still part of this community. Just because you graduated doesn’t mean you’re no longer part of this community. If anything, you’re part of a bigger and wider community now. And it is really important to show up.

[14:32] Sahar: Oh, my gosh! Yes, absolutely, it is definitely never too late! I mean, let’s be honest, the program was rigorous. You’re drinking from a fire hose. And with all the different stages that people were in in their life, you might have not even had the time to do some of those things. So, take it upon yourself, when you’re ready, we’re ready, right? Like, the network is ready.

And the whole point is that this is truly a network for life. It’s a community for life, so that people can really grow together and push their boundaries when they’re ready, making that change. It might have not been when you were a student. So what? It might be two years later. It might be five years from now. So, just really–

[15:21] Sean: Showing up.

[15:22] Sahar: Just show up. Just show up.

[15:25] Sean: Yeah, whenever you’re ready, right?

[15:27] Sahar: Whenever you’re ready.

[15:29] Sean: It’s so funny, I’ve been preaching this at every admissions event that they used to invite me to that I used to go to, where I told people that, you know, one way to look at the program, aside from, obviously, the amazing experience at school and the curriculum, the professors and whatnots, is also seeing that it’s a one-time payment for a lifetime membership at an exclusive country club, right, a yacht club, when you’re in one of these, you know, top programs.

And you just reminded me that, you know, that that club membership is forever. And sometimes, it’s so easy to forget, once again, with raising a family and whatnot, and then you feel like, “Oh, I haven’t connected with this network in a while, that I don’t know how. Am I still part of this network? Am I still part of this community?” And the answer is yes. That’s what it sounds like. I love that message.

[16:24] Sahar: I mean, it’s the elite backyard barbecue reunion, whenever you want it to be.

[16:29] Sean: Yeah. And people are always ready to meet you.

[16:32] Sahar: Always ready.

[16:33] Sean: Yeah. We just had our first Orange County Haas Alumni Network Happy Hour since the pandemic. And it was amazing, just meeting so many new people down here in Orange County. And it just really, even though I hadn’t met, probably, 90% of the people that showed up, but it felt like family.

[16:53] Sahar: Yes.

[16:54] Sean: And it was really cool.

[16:55] Sahar: Don’t you feel that, like, surge of energy whenever, like, you leave these events? It’s really wild to me.

[17:02] Sean: Yeah. I think another interesting thing that people experience that I’ve heard throughout the years is, you mentioned, you know, chips on our shoulders and whatnots. And that’s why we go to business school, right? If you didn’t have a chip on your shoulder, why would you be there, right? If you didn’t have a student always mindset, right, well, are you showing up for?

But because we have the student always mindset, we’re there that, I think, some people felt disappointed that everyone else didn’t, kind of, have their shit together. Like, everyone was trying to figure something out. And they had this expectation that, oh, like, going to this elite school, that I would be inspired by other people.

And it was so interesting because then they would be demotivated that, you know, they weren’t being inspired by others. But I think what people fail to see is that, you know, you’re not there, to your point, to take from others, right? You’re there to give. And, you know, to maybe switch that mentality as well as, like, you know, if other people aren’t inspiring you, what are you doing to inspire other people? And that sounds like how you’re living it. That’s, kind of, my takeaway.

[18:11] Sahar: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there is no right answer. I think it’s trusting the process. And I think the Berkeley Haas MBA experience humbles you very quickly to understand and see that there isn’t an answer and that you need to be vulnerable to the process and see where that takes you, and while giving you the new tools in your toolkit to expand on that and try new things as a leader.

[18:44] Sean: Yeah, that’s so true. And then that’s a lifelong process, right, of vulnerability and safety in this community.

[18:51] Sahar: Yes.

[18:51] Sean: That’s something, again, I really appreciate you bringing up this topic because… and on this alumni podcast, because that’s something that I think people don’t think about or realize that, you know, there’s a lot of, that the process is continuing, still, but this community will always be there for you and be a safe space.

[19:10] Sahar: It is. And by the way, that vulnerability drives outcomes in very positive ways in whatever we do, right? Like, earning trust and bringing your authentic self and listening to people, these are tools in your toolkit that only amplify the impact that you have as a leader.

And it was great to be able to exercise and learn more about that and learn more about how we operate as individuals to, kind of, shape how we would do the same in other spaces. But it’s like you have to learn yourself first.

[19:48] Sean: Yeah. And I think it’s amazing that you’ve built, kind of, this personal board of directors around yourself as well. That’s a great way to think about it versus, you know, saying, you know, “I made a bunch of friends at Haas.” I really like that mindset, that I have a board of directors around me, which I now realize I do. They’re pretty, pretty darn cool.

[20:09] Sahar: It’s very powerful perspective. I’m very lucky and grateful.

[20:14] Sean: And what are you working on personally or career-wise or what’s next?

[20:20] Sahar: Throughout my career, I’ve become known as the person who gets it done. And that, sort of, brings me to where I am now, which is partnering with GMs to drive advertising experience outcomes globally and staying close to customer driving improvements to the Amazon advertising international business by sizing revenue opportunities and then working with teams to improve the product in each geography in order to unlock that untapped revenue and seeing how we do against those projections. So, for me, I just always love to be able to build the frameworks and see immediate impact to the things that I’m working on.

[20:56] Sean: For our listeners, Sahar, you know, what’s some advice you can give them, as an alum?

[21:02] Sahar: I think, just say it. Just say it and just try it, whatever that is. We’re in a world now that just goes so fast, that getting different experience or setting yourself on a new path just has never been more possible and more achievable. And just show up. We’ve said this, but to show up.

[21:24] Sean: Can they reach out to you?

[21:25] Sahar: Absolutely. Please, do. If you don’t even know where to start, reach out to me, reach out to the alumni office, and we start the search from there on connecting you with the right folks. And with no particular ask necessary. Like, if you just have been disconnected for a while and you want to connect with someone, make a friend, I mean, reach out. That’s the beauty of this. We just want to stay connected.

And, you know, maybe to answer your earlier question, I think, you know, what’s next? I’m just always out there, thirsting for the next big challenge. Ideally, I want to share my knowledge and help lead the next generation to solve big problems and make a big impact. And even better, if those next generation leaders come from Haas.

[22:15] Sean: I have an interesting question. You have two daughters, right?

[22:18] Sahar: We do.

[22:19] Sean: What is some wisdom you would like to impart on them?

[22:23] Sahar: This question haunts me daily. It truly does. As a female professional, this question carries, you know, a strong weight on my shoulders. I would say the main thing I want my daughters to grow up with is taking risks, being true to who they are, but also being open to change, and learn and grow, and not to be afraid of the next challenge because each challenge just fills our cup with more knowledge that we didn’t have before, and each experience helps complete who we’re meant to be. Each strawberry that they eat is one closer to finishing the box. They love strawberries.

[23:14] Sean: Oh, that’s fantastic. I wish my son would eat some fruits.

[23:21] Sahar: We’re Persian. You know we’ve got the big fruit bowls. But just, you know, taking risks and creating your own opportunities, I think. So, I’ve had conversations with folks in our community that have reached out, you know, for, sort of, informational conversations and, specifically, people who want to move into a different type of role, let’s say, different than what they’ve been doing for a really long time. And that imposter syndrome that, you know, kicks in, the, “I’m not sure if I have the experience,” and, you know, the advice, consistently, is reflecting on the experiences that you have and carving out similar types of assignments and, you know, thinking about the outcomes that you would want to drive through that change that you want to pursue in your current role, and figuring out how to navigate that and create your own experiment where you are.

And feeling empowered to do that, because at the end of the day, like, what organization doesn’t want to see an impact? And if you feel like you can drive that impact, you don’t have to wait for someone to tell you to go do it, just go do it. And it goes back to the same thing you were saying before, like, just say it and try it and do it.

[24:50] Sean: Love that. Sahar, it was a real pleasure having you on the podcast today.

[24:53] Sahar: This was so fun.

[24:54] Sean: Thank you so much!

[24:55] Sahar: Thank you!

[25:01] Sean: Thanks again for tuning in to this episode of the OneHaas Podcast. If you enjoyed our show today, please hit that Subscribe or Follow button on your favorite podcast player. We’d also really appreciate you giving us a five-star rating and review.

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