Laura Clayton McDonnell, JD MBA 85 – The Importance of Having a Personal Philosophy

(Transcripts may contain a few typographical errors due to audio quality during the podcast recording.)

[00:00] Sean: Welcome to the OneHaas Alumni Podcast. I’m your host, Sean Li. And today, we’re joined by Laura Clayton McDonnell. Laura is a Haas alum, of course, but she was also a JD MBA, which is amazing. She is currently the president of corporates at Thomson Reuters and also the board member at Signal AI and Zuora.

Welcome to the podcast, Laura.

[00:30] Laura: Thank you. It’s great to be here.

[00:33] Sean: Laura, we like to start off these episodes hearing about your origin story. So, share with us, you could, how you grew up, where you grew up, where were you born? Love to hear all that.

[00:44] Laura: Well, I’m happy to do that. And it’s really an honor to be here and have an opportunity to share with fellow alums and other friends and family, too, along the way. And I referenced family because they’re such a core part of who I am. And with any origin story, in my view, it begins with your parents.

My parents were born and raised in Colón, Panama, and they always wanted to come to the United States. And one of the ways to do that is to join the U.S. military, which my father did in Panama. So, you learn English. Spanish is his first language. Got trained up and skilled up. He joined the U.S. Air Force. And the first place he was stationed was Bermuda, and that’s where I was born. So, I became a British subject. We don’t have any family there. It’s a beautiful place. I’ve been there many times, but it just happened to be a place where I was born. And then, the next place he was stationed was in Northern California, in Travis Air Force Base near Vacaville.

I think about that a lot, about how they came to the United States first of their family to come here. And I think about the sacrifices that they made. They left behind their family, friends, food, culture, language to create a life for a family yet to be born. And I think about the strength and the courage that they bring to the table. And you know what? It actually informs the way that I think about the world.

I’m going to share with you my personal philosophy statement because it really informs it. And I hadn’t realized that this was really guiding me throughout my life, my career, my personal life. And my personal philosophy is to live life in an exemplary manner and all that matters with courage, curiosity, compassion, humility, integrity, and optimism. And for folks out there listening to this, they’ll hear a little bit of the Haas values as part of it.

[02:41] Sean: Yeah.

[02:42] Laura: I hadn’t realized how influential it was to my career, but when I think about that, if I just put a circle around the word “exemplary,” for me and my family, it means to be the very best that you can be and to be a role model for others. So, that is something that just weaves its way throughout my career. And I take it very seriously because I think about the sacrifice that they made that, of course, I can’t do anything but try to be my best and try to be a good role model for others. And so, it really influences me all the way through my life.

I think about them all the time. I think about this personal philosophy. I realized when I got to Microsoft, this is how I captured it all. I had a vehicle, a place where I could really put these thoughts down, these values and ideas that I have.

And I think about it every day. I mean, when I start my day, I think about my personal philosophy and I commit to doing the best that I can. And at the end of the day, I reflect. And sometimes, I don’t do as well as I would like, but I commit to do better the next day. And so, this, once again, you know, it just really influences everything that I stand for, that I think about and how I live my life.

[03:55] Sean: If I could go back a little bit, I’m really curious. So, I imagine your family moved around a lot. Where would you say you grew up or spent the most time?

[04:05] Laura: Yeah, I spent the most time in Northern California, specifically, in West San Jose.

[04:11] Sean: Wow!

[04:12] Laura: That’s where I grew up. I went to elementary, junior high, high school, undergrad at San Jose State and stayed in the Bay Area, then, you know, headed over to Berkeley doing the JD MBA.

[04:23] Sean: You know, I do have to dig into this a little bit because I’m a big Jobs fan, an Apple fan. I noticed you worked at Apple during very tumultuous years there.

[04:34] Laura: Yes, yes, yes. Apple nearly went bankrupt during that period of time.

[04:41] Sean: You were there when Jobs left and came back.

[04:44] Laura: Exactly, exactly. It was pretty amazing. You know, my mom still lives in the Bay Area. She lives about 10 minutes away from Apple’s headquarters. So, it was almost natural that I would work there. But I will say anybody who grew up in West San Jose at the time that I did and went to Lynbrook High School, we all wanted to leave the area. It was nirvana to go to San Francisco, to live and work there. That was the dream. And so, I loved going to Berkeley. And I said, “I’m going to work in San Francisco,” which I did. I was in private practice for about four years.

And then, one day I received a call from a headhunter. She said, “There’s this company that’s interested in somebody like you. They’re kind of a scrappy company, but I think you’d be perfect for it. You know, they’re in technology.” And I thought, “Oh, my gosh, it’s Apple. That means I have to go back home again. I don’t want to do that.” But I’m so glad I said yes. It was just a fantastic experience. I’m so glad for that opportunity.

[05:38] Sean: That’s amazing. What did you study at San Jose State?

[05:42] Laura: International business. You can imagine somebody who grew up in a bilingual household, I thought, “Oh, I’m just going to travel around the world and learn all about business.” And then, there was this experience that I had when I was young that actually brought me to law. My family relocated to Northern California, and the family was getting bigger. I have a younger brother, a younger sister, and my parents were looking for housing that could fit us all instead of move off base and go off base and find some housing. So, my mom called around and found a housing development that said, “Yeah, we’ve got availability. It’s great. You’re part of the military. We’re happy to have you. Why don’t you make an appointment?” which my mom did.

And she said, “Well, I’m going to bring my husband with me.” They said, “Sure, that’s fine.” So, they showed up. And as they were leaving the car, they’re like, “What are you doing here?” My mom said, “Well, I have an appointment.” They said, “Well, we don’t have anything here for you.” And they realized instantly what was happening, that there was the resistance for having people of color be a part of the housing development.

[06:51] Sean: Racial profiling, yeah.

[06:53] Laura: There’s a lot of things you can do as an immigrant, right? I mean, you can say, “Oh, you know what? I’m sure there’s plenty of other housing. Let’s just leave. Let’s just go find something else.” My father and my mom said, “You know what? We’re going to make a stand. We’re going to sue.” They did. And they won. And it was that day. And I was 8 years old. And I said, “I’m going to be a lawyer.”

Now, from that point, I went through lots of different dreams. I wanted to be an astronaut. “I wanted to do this. I wanted to…” But ultimately, I came around to it. And that was so influential to me that, once again, it reinforced that personal philosophy statement, being a role model for others, giving back to others. So, when I was in private practice in San Francisco, my specialty is securities law. I also did pro bono work, helping women and minority-owned businesses incorporate. Because it’s very expensive to do that, get your bylaws done, file your articles of incorporation.

And so, that was a lot of fun. I felt I was giving back that way, but that was so life-changing for me to have that experience. It’s important to stand up for yourself and give voice to folks who don’t have a voice.

[08:03] Sean: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that story. That’s inspiring, to say the least. So, you went to get this law degree, why the MBA?

[08:12] Laura: Yeah. So, it was interesting. I was having a conversation with my dad, and he said, “You really wanted to put all your eggs in one basket,” which I thought, “This is not a bad basket to be a lawyer.” He said, “There’s different things.” And, you know, we’ve always been a student. I’ve always been a student and wanting to learn. So, just like the Haas value of student always, right? So, always learning. And I thought there was an opportunity to combine both when you think about a company and how it operates and understanding of regulations, laws, policies are really important to making money.

We actually have as part of our value prop that we talk about at Thomson Reuters, we help you at the intersection of commerce and compliance. And here’s commerce on the MBA side, there’s compliance on the legal side. So, it’s a natural fit for me to here to be at Thomson Reuters. It’s embodying that.

But that’s how I thought about it, that, ultimately, I’d like to learn more about business. I ended up working as a lawyer first. I thought I spent a lot of time doing that and passing the bar, I’m going to practice law. But then, I started to have these thoughts about, “Okay, I’m looking at one side of the picture,” and as somebody in private practice, you’re only looking at the legal side, but there’s an opportunity to work in house at a company, and therefore the opportunity at Apple.

[09:35] Sean: So, since then, how has your journey evolved to today?

[09:40] Laura: Yeah. It’s definitely not something when folks say, “Well, I’ve got a career path.” It’s definitely, it has twists and turns and all of that. So, after Apple, I worked at Cisco Systems when it was a much smaller company. As in house counsel, they were starting their legal department. And then, I had an opportunity to join Sun Microsystems. And I thought, “Okay, great, I’m getting all this tech experience.” I’m not a technologist at all, but it was really about having an opportunity to make a difference with a business, with a customer. And I ended up supporting two groups. One was the marketing group. So, at that time, Sun was putting forward television commercials. So, I had to substantiate the claims that were made. But I also had the other group that supported software developers and systems integrators, those that develop products, hardware, software that complimented Sun’s products.

And I was going, I said, “This is really interesting. This makes a difference in a company, to be able to take a piece of software and be able to achieve its outcomes and goals.” I was so excited about it that I would go visit with the software developer without the business development person with me. As a lawyer, you normally don’t do that. You shouldn’t do that. They should have their lawyer. You have your business person.

But I was just very interested. And one day, the VP of market development, that’s what the organization was called, said, “You don’t even sound like a lawyer anymore. Come join my team. In fact, you can’t be my lawyer anymore. You have to join my team.” And that’s how I made the move. It wasn’t something that I had planned. I was just curious, and I just naturally found my way there. But it was really important. I can think of individuals like that that made a difference in my career. If he had not said that, you know, maybe I would have ended up doing more work in in-house counsel and I might not have made this move.

But that was the turning point. From there, I worked at a company called Rational Software. I was their VP for channels, essentially doing what I was doing at Sun Microsystems. And then, it was acquired by IBM, which I thought was like my world was going to end. Because if you grew up in Silicon Valley, you didn’t want to work for IBM. They were the dark side. But it turns out it was the best thing that ever happened to me.

[11:58] Sean: Wow. What did you do there at IBM? You were there for 11 years.

[12:03] Laura: Yeah, I was there for 11 years. Oh, my gosh. I did everything from I was the vice president for public sector, which I supported healthcare accounts, state and local government. My quota was $2 billion. I had a team of folks that sold everything from mainframes all the way to plugs. Then, I also had an opportunity to live and work abroad. So, tapping back into that international business side at IBM, you could elect to work abroad. So, I did that for two years. My husband and I, we relocated into Chile for two years. My territory was Spanish South America. I was able to do deals in Spanish and live and work and get to visit my family. And the deals were all about strategic outsourcing. You’ve got an IT organization, or maybe there’s a business process, and we could help you outsource it. That was a wonderful time. I really enjoyed that.

[12:55] Sean: Did you live in Santiago?

[12:58] Laura: I lived in Santiago, that’s right. The Andes were there. You got a nice apartment, a beautiful car, and then you had Valparaiso. You got to go to the beach. You go from the mountains to the beach in the same day, just like in the Bay Area, going from Tahoe all the way to the beach.

[13:17] Sean: That’s amazing. I love South America. I just love it down there.

[13:23] Laura: Yeah.

[13:23] Sean: So much culture, I love the food. Did you get to travel around a lot while you were down there?

[13:28] Laura: I got to travel around, yeah. Went to Peru. Went to Machu Picchu. We went to Colombia. And then, we did something that was on my husband’s bucket list. So, it wasn’t really on mine. And it’s because of the weather, he wanted to go to Antarctica.

[13:43] Sean: Ooh.

[13:44] Laura: Yes, very cold. But we did a cruise, 10-day cruise. You leave from Ushuaia at the southern tip of South America, of course, during the summertime, which is in January. But it was freezing cold there. So, we did crazy things like the polar plunge. Now, that’s got to be the original polar plunge. That was insane. Then, we did something that only 100 people get to do every year, and that is camp on Antarctica.

[14:12] Sean: Oh, wow.

[14:13] Laura: So, normally, the cruise ships drop anchor and then you take these zodiacs back and forth. And we were associated with a… I guess it was a ship line that focused on scientific experiments and things like that.

[14:25] Sean: Yeah, like an expedition.

[14:27] Laura: Like an expedition. But that was amazing to be in a place so still and beautiful and clear and you couldn’t leave anything behind. It had to be that you weren’t even there. That was pretty amazing to have that experience to camp overnight.

[14:41] Sean: Just one night.

[14:42] Laura: Just one night, just one night. You’re in and you’re out. And you’re pitching a tent, and it was cold. But it was so much fun. What an experience!

[14:54] Sean: Sounds like a, yeah, once-in-a-lifetime experience like that.

[14:57] Laura: It is.

[15:00] Sean: You grew up moving around a lot. It sounds like, throughout your career you moved around as well. And now, you’re calling in from New York. I presume you’re permanently based there for the time being.

[15:13] Laura: We are, for the time being. You never know what may happen. But I came to New York. It wasn’t necessarily part of the plan. Once again, this wasn’t a career path. But after IBM, I was sitting and working one day and I got a call from a headhunter. And he said, “Do you want to work for a company that wants to empower every person and every organization on the planet to achieve more?” I said, “Wow.” When you heard my personal philosophy, that fits in, like, “Which company is this?” And they said, “It’s Microsoft.” And I said, “Really? I mean, it’s Word and Excel.”

[15:52] Sean: Yeah.

[15:53] Laura: And then, when I really thought about it, well, yeah, I mean, words do matter. They can move people. They can make you see the world differently. There is some level of power there. It’s a higher-level different way of thinking about it. And I have to say to you, that was a wonderful call to receive. And sometimes, you get these calls out of the blue and you almost have to say yes because it absolutely made a difference in joining that organization. Satya had just been appointed the CEO. Maybe, he had been in role for a year and a half. But he put together an incredible program to change Microsoft from being known as a know-it-all company to a learn-it-all company, once again, going back to those Haas values, “being student always.”

What is he going to do to take this company that’s pretty successful but a little bit set in its ways and maybe sits in the corner of the room and says, “Well, I know everything. I don’t need to change?” He was going to change, but he’s going to change it from the inside out.

[16:53] Sean: Yeah.

[16:54] Laura: And not only the company, but from the individual. You’re going to change. And first, you got to know yourself. And therefore, he gave us the book Growth Mindset by Carol Dweck. I thought it was really important that we understood that. So, we got trained up there. And then, we went through some training on developing a high-performance team. And it starts with your purpose. And we all had to develop the personal philosophy statement. So, when we meet somebody new, anybody in the organization, so I ran New York Metro, another sales organization, $1.5 billion quota, customers like JPMorgan Chase and Verizon. But the first thing that you do when you meet a customer, you’re trying to build empathy as a salesperson, and you’ve got to know who you are. So, you need to know what your personal philosophy is. So, you’re supposed to convey that. “Hi, my name is Laura Clayton McDonnell, and I’m so glad to meet you. I’d like to share my personal philosophy, and then I’d like to hear yours, too.” And then, you build that connection point, talk about those words and what they mean. But it’s a specific set of exercises we went through in order to create it.

And then, we built meditation into what we did. That was really important. So, you can imagine a sales organization folks have this picture of what a salesperson will do. Do you even expect them to do meditation? Well, I did. And you do it for your team so we can just relax, make sure that we are open to other people’s ideas. But one day, my team asked me to do that with a customer, and I thought, “Oh, my God, they’re going to think we’re so weird.”

[18:27] Laura: And so, I explained why we did it and the transformation we were going through. And this customer actually did not want to meet with us, but we held out the little carrot that “We’ll get you to meet Satya if you meet with us first,” because he was such a big fan. And we started off the meeting. I did the meditation, just a minute, get everybody calm and centered and focused, and so we could share ideas. And Satya came in on the second day, and he asked them, “What was the best part of this meeting?” And they said it was the meditation, because it meant to them that we were going to take time to listen instead of jump to a conclusion or try to sell them on something. I mean, ultimately, they know why they’re there. But are you going to take time to understand why and what we’re trying to accomplish?

So, that was pretty amazing. The power of it is something that I am so glad I had the opportunity to participate in.

[19:26] Sean: And yeah, the impact as well.

[19:28] Laura: Yeah.

[19:29] Sean: I mean, under his leadership, your leadership there, at that time, I’m sure these things set things in motion for Microsoft to today be the most valuable company. I just read that yesterday. In the world.

[19:46] Laura: In the world.

[19:47] Sean: Surpassing the first company you helped out.

[19:51] Laura: Yeah, that’s right. They’re battling.

[19:53] Sean: The first tech company, which is pretty, I mean, jokes aside, right, I remember growing up in an era where it was the big Apple versus Microsoft commercials beat those ads. And I’m sure most people thought Microsoft is not going anywhere or it’s not growing anymore, it’s stagnant. And then, you just never know. As long as, to your point, I think, as long as the leadership is very self-aware and very empathetic. I think Satya has a lot of the qualities that you talk about.

[20:28] Laura: He does.

[20:29] Sean: It shows in terms of results. So, taking a step back, I’m really curious, you know, you talk a lot about sharing your values. How did you uncover them? I think that’s the best word to use.

[20:41] Laura: Yeah, tell the story about Microsoft again is double-click on that. And it was pretty amazing to have somebody that’s such a visionary and really had thought through what steps he was going to help us through in order to be able to understand that vision and realize on it.

And the specific step was an organization. At that time, it was called Compete to Create, but now, I think they’re called Finding Mastery. And they talked about, well, if you want to have a high-performance team, what are the examples of high-performance teams out there? What do they do? How do they think about the world? You know, everybody thought about Olympians. They work hard. They achieve the highest level. That’s the ultimate. But what do they actually do? Of course, they’ve got the physical attributes and they’ve got the practice that they do and the skills that they have. But there’s something inside of them that is so common. And this organization had done studies and research, and it ends up being their personal philosophy statement, their purpose. They use it to start the day, end the day. They use it as the mantra. It focuses and drives them. They always go back to it. “Yeah, today I’m going to commit to embodying that. And maybe I fall short, but tomorrow I’m going to do better.”

And they gave us each a piece of paper, and we were in small groups, and had a bunch of words on it, like “friendship” and “family” and “happiness” and things like that. And the exercise was to sit down and find a quiet place and just circle the words that resonate with you, ones that you could tell a story about, not just everything there just because you think somebody might think it. “No, this is all about you. If you were to tell your story, which words would you use to tell that story?”

And some folks had shorter ones. Mine’s a little bit longer because I’m a lawyer by training. So, I like words. But then, you had to put it together and think about it and then talk to each other about it and see if it resonated and if you could explain it to somebody, if they could understand you from that and you go back and forth and it’s over a period of time and you still do it to this day, does it still fit with how I think about the world?

And so, that specific exercise was one that helped build that together. So, it’s one thing to do it for yourself, but if you’re leading, you’re a leader and you want to lead your team, and you believe in purpose-driven leadership… and you’re right about companies that have purpose-driven leaders have a lot of value associated with it. They did this study. And the top 10 have folks who really think about purpose as driving it. And the results should follow if you focus on purpose.

So, how do you get this to scale across an organization at that time over, whatever, hundreds of thousands of people? It starts with you. And then, for your team, you bring your team together and you put all of your personal philosophies, and you circle the most frequently used words. Then, now, you have this word cloud. And then, you put it together. Now, I have the purpose of the team. We can always go back and decide, are you doing the right thing or not? And it’s very similar to a company having a value statement. But you have it for your team and then it ladders into the overarching team, but you always go back to it, you start your meetings that way. Are we doing the right things? Let’s double check and make sure it’s in alignment with our philosophy statement as a team.

So, it’s powerful that way. But you got to do the work. The work begins with that growth mindset, another one of the values that we have at Haas, right?

[24:27] Sean: Yeah.

[24:28] Laura: You have to have folks who are open to that, are willing to learn, curious. You create an environment that’s safe. So, it’s work, but it’s work that pays off. So, I saw it at Microsoft ServiceNow. And now that I’ve been at Thomson Reuters 10 months now, it’s the time to start introducing this concept to the team. And we started with growth mindset. I gave my team the Growth Mindset book, and we went through training, and we’ll continue to do those levels of training throughout.

[24:57] Sean: I admire Carol Dweck so much that, seriously, I’m still considering it, you know, finding a way to do a PhD under her study.

[25:06] Laura: Ooh, that would be cool.

[25:08] Sean: Right.

[25:09] Laura: It would be.

[25:11] Sean: I just think that would be neat. But yeah, I really like that idea, because you’re absolutely right. Company values, even for the small companies that I run and own, we set company values. But sometimes, they do feel a bit removed for the individual teams and their functions, because it’s sometimes just, it feels so high in the sky that it gets lost. And so, I’m going to take that advice and actually go do that with our teams. We just finished another round of OKRs this morning for the new year.

[25:44] Laura: So, it’s fresh in your mind.

[25:45] Sean: It’s fresh in our mind, yeah, to add on top of that, the values. And actually, I love that methodology. I’m glad you shared it, because a lot of people, when they start on this journey of uncovering their philosophy, I remember my first time doing it, it felt very daunting when I had to fill one of these things out. And I was like, “Where do I even pick these words?” And let me go Google some words. And so, what are some words? And I remember struggling with trying to balance what really resonates with me versus what I think other people want from me.

[26:24] Laura: Yeah.

[26:25] Sean: Right? Versus, again, saying what I want for myself and really being clear on that, because anything that I pick for myself I know I will live with and anything I think other people expect of me, and I learned this hard way, but anything that I thought other people expected of me and putting those in my values, I couldn’t stick with them as well.

[26:48] Laura: That’s exactly right. That’s why the exercise where, “Now, tell us the story about why did you pick the word, ‘curious?’ What does ‘curious’ mean to you?” And for me… another story. I mean, each word is a story. Curious because I think I referenced that I wanted to be an astronaut. I was convinced I was going to be an astronaut when I was little. My mom bought me all these books. And at my high school, Lynbrook High School, they had a program with NASA Ames Research Center in Mountain View, where, once a week, you can spend a half day. They’ll pick you up in a bus and take you over there. And you could spend time with the scientists. I was convinced. My father said, “Well, every astronaut needs a telescope.” So, normal families would go out and buy one. No, not my dad. He’s a tinkerer and EE by training. “We’re going to build it.”

[27:37] Sean: Wow.

[27:38] Laura: Got an article in Scientific American. We got the lens. We went to Sunnyvale to grind the lens, get it the right size. We got the tube. We got all the different parts. We put it together. And then, the magical knight appeared where we’re going to use it. It didn’t work at all. I’m so disappointed. How can I be an astronaut? My telescope doesn’t work. He said, “Did you just miss the whole point of what we just did? This was about learning and asking questions. Now, you’ve got the best opportunity to ask, ‘I wonder why it didn’t work.’ Be curious about that and curious about the world.”

Well, we didn’t make another one. We went ahead and bought another one. It’s okay to make a mistake or have a slip-up. And you just got to recover and learn from that. So, like I said, every single one of those words, there’s a story about me and my family. And that’s what separates it from just being what folks expect from you to what really matters to you. And that’s what you need to know about me.

[28:43] Sean: Thank you for sharing that story. I think that’s so important in even uncovering your philosophy, right? Just with that realization, understanding that you may make mistakes along the way and that what’s important is that you are patient with yourself and you’re continually curious and figuring out who you are, because I think, to this whole conversation, it is really important to understand who you are. I think, in today’s day and age, with technology and so much clickbait media and what-nots, it’s easy to lose yourself.

[29:18] Laura: That’s true.

[29:19] Sean: And that’s something I’m very conscious of, and especially with our kids, very conscious about, how do I raise them in a way where they know their identity? So, any advice on parenting?

[29:35] Laura: Advice on parenting, this whole thing about purpose and there’s lessons learned just in our own family. I think about our daughter, one of our daughters. And just learning about family and where we came from was just so important. So, she speaks Spanish and Portuguese. Languages are important. Communication is important. Giving back to the community, she volunteers in the community. She’s also a lawyer. So, she can’t get away from that. But she did make a trip to Panama to find out, where is this family from? And she realized and it gave her a better understanding of her grandparents and not taking for granted.

And so, helping our children absorb those lessons are really important. We are their guides. I think about my parents as they were my guide. Every experience we had was all about some kind of lesson. They took it very consciously, very purposefully. My husband and I feel very fortunate that our children are purposeful individuals. They’re figuring out ways in which they can provide value to community. And I like that. It’s a never-ending job or opportunity to continue to do that, but a very special one. I’m honored to be able to do that.

[31:00] Sean: That’s beautiful, yeah. Personally, I feel like I was also very fortunate that I have parents that raised me in a way to instill in me that, as a member of society, we should think about how we’re contributing to society, what value we bring. And it’s a very joyful way to live.

[31:20] Laura: It is.

[31:21] Sean: That’s the best way to put it. Because, it’s just like, when you do something nice for other people, when you open a door for someone, it makes the other person feel good, but it makes you feel even better, right?

[31:31] Laura: Yeah.

[31:32] Sean: And so, little acts of kindness, and how do we amplify that to the value that we bring to society? I know you’re busy, so I’m going to ask you one last question, which is, do you have any books that you recommend, since we were talking about books earlier?

[31:44] Laura: Well, we’ve been talking about Growth Mindset all the time. Guess what? Carol Dweck’s Growth Mindset book.

[31:51] Sean: Anything else? Doesn’t have to be business or…

[31:54] Laura: “It Starts With Why.” Once again, these are all connected to my personal thoughts. It Starts With Why by Simon Sinek. I’m a real big TED Talk fan. And I remember listening to that and thinking, “I get that, the structure of, why does somebody buy a phone from Apple versus, I don’t know, Samsung, it’s a phone, does similar things, and it starts with why. Why?” We’re just going to change the world with this design that we have in Apple. And the how is the design. It’s very careful. Everything is put together. There’s no excess extraneous materials. And what it is that we sell? A phone. So, the what, there you have, it’s a commodity. The how, you start to differentiate. The why, that’s the ultimate way of delivering value. And I think about that in relationships with customers, in work, in life. It starts with why, back to our personal philosophy.

[32:55] Sean: I wish we had more time, Laura, but it’s been a real pleasure having you on today. Would love to have you on again sometime to hear more.

[33:03] Laura: All right. Well, thank you so much. It’s been great, Sean. Thank you.

[33:07] Sean: Thanks, Laura. Go, Bears!

[33:08] Laura: Go, Bears!

[33:14] Sean: Thanks again for tuning in to this episode of the OneHaas Podcast. If you enjoyed our show today, please remember to hit that Subscribe or Follow button on your favorite podcast player. We’d also really appreciate you giving us a five-star rating and review.

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OneHaas Podcast is a production of the Haas School of Business and produced by University FM. Until next time. Go, Bears!