H@H: Ep 57 – Cat Ziac joins host, Raymond Guan on this week’s episode of Here@Haas. Cat’s career journey began in New York on Wall Street before pivoting to a startup and then back to finance at AllianceBernstein’s responsible investing group. We also learn about her supporting Haas students in both the Academic Cohort Representative and Graduate Student Instructor roles, and why she has such an affinity for economics.
On why she chose to attend Berkeley-Haas: “I view businesses as being able to have a positive, societal impact, and I think it’s important if you’re in a place of privilege […] to consider all sorts of people in the world and try to better everyone’s lives.”
Why Macroeconomics is important, regardless of industry: “Macro matters to you because that economic backdrop determines what the environment is for raising money through a VC. If you’re in healthcare, macro might tell you certain things about the business cycle or how different economies are performing relative to each other…“
(Transcripts may contain a few typographical errors due to audio quality during the podcast recording.)
Ray Guan: I’m Ray Guan, and this is here@haas. A student-run podcast of the Berkeley Haas community. Today, I’m very fortunate to be joined by Cat Ziac, a former Academic Cohort rep, current macroeconomics GSI for Ross Levine, a second-year EWMBA student of the AXE Cohort. And I believe you are a twin as well. Welcome, Cat.
[00:00:26] Cat Ziac: Thanks, Ray. I’m so glad to be here.
[00:00:29] Ray Guan: So, I hope I covered everything on the intro there. Just tell us about you, your background from New York, and your path to Haas.
[00:00:39] Cat Ziac: Yeah, absolutely. So, I grew up in upstate New York, kind of in the Albany area. And I went to union college for undergrad. So really small liberal arts school and upstate New York. After graduation, I went down to New York City, worked on wall street for a few years, worked in sales and trading at a Japanese investment bank.
[00:00:59] It was a really great experience, great exposure to the markets and just corporate America. But after a few years there, I ended up joining a really, really tiny startup. I was the fourth person in the startup.
[00:01:13] We were developing a wearable biosensor that could track alcohol consumption through your skin. It’s very specific. So, kind of like a Fitbit for alcohol. Super promising startup, great group of guys that I was working with all engineers, they needed someone who had the finance operational chops. So that was me. It was a bit of a roller coaster, few months at the company. And ultimately, we failed as startups do, but an amazing, amazing learning experience. So, after that, I felt like getting back into finance. I joined Alliance Bernstein Global Asset Management Firm. And I started there in New York, but at the time was really eager to get out West.
[00:01:57] So, most of my team there was actually working remotely already. And this was 2017 before working remotely was cool. And I came out to the Bay area and was working remotely here. Really loving it out here, but I didn’t have the same kind of network that I did in New York. I wasn’t meeting as many people as I’d hoped, especially because I was working from home. And at the same time, I always knew I wanted to go back to business school at some point. So, I started looking around, and Haas was just the obvious choice. I knew I didn’t want to quit my job. I knew I wanted something part-time I knew I wanted something with really strong values and great people, and all signs pointed to Haas. So, I applied, got in, and then started in the fall of 2019.
[00:02:48] Ray Guan: Before we get on your journey to Haas or at Haas, tell us about some of the pros and cons of working remote versus working in person. Cause it seemed like you experienced that before the pandemic. And I guess just to give people a taste of what it was like before we were all forced to work from home.
[00:03:11] Cat Ziac: First and foremost, I mean, the thing that jumped out to me right away was you saved so much time in terms of commuting, getting ready in the morning. That was just a huge efficiency boost. The other component for me, and this is true to this day, is I work in New York hours. So, I was up at the crack of Dawn.
[00:03:30] Ray Guan: Are you a morning person?
[00:03:32] Cat Ziac: I’m not. I’m not a morning person.
[00:03:35] Ray Guan: Wow.
[00:03:35] Cat Ziac: But it’s worth it. I always find it’s worth it to push through the exhaustion in the morning because you get those afternoons. Call it two, three o’clock in the afternoon. All your colleagues are signing off for the day, and you can enjoy all that the Bay area has to offer. So, lots of walks, sailing, just exploring.
[00:03:58] So, I think those are definitely some of the biggest perks, and I always made sure in those first few months to break up the workday and my own personal day. And I think that’s something that’s really become apparent during the pandemic is you can find yourself working all day. Maybe you should do something to break it up.
[00:04:16] Ray Guan: I think it’s important to set boundaries. Like you said. Otherwise, you can end up working at 5:00 AM and then 5:00 PM and then 10:00 PM, so on and so forth. Thank you for reminding us about the pros of work from home, because I know a lot of us are eager to get back in person, whether it’s at school or at work, but there’s some trade-offs there as well.
[00:04:39] So let’s talk about your path to Haas now. You had said that Haas was an obvious choice. Did you look at any other schools, or were you pretty much trying to stay in the Bay area? And this was the one that made more sense?
[00:04:52] Cat Ziac: Yeah, so I had just moved to the Bay area, and it was actually the first time my parents came out to visit me in the fall of 2018. And I remember distinctly sitting in my living room, my apartment, and we were browsing through the internet, streaming it on my TV. My parents knew I wanted to go back to business school at some point.
[00:05:14] So your kind of talking about this, and they’re like, what about Berkeley? You know, so he pulled up the website, and we started reading about the culture and the courses and the professors and everything that the school has to offer. And I’m always someone who it takes a bit of time to commit to something.
[00:05:33] I could spend all my time weighing the pros and cons. And so, I was thinking, Oh, I don’t know. Am I ready? Is it time? And I really, I remember my mother just saying Cat don’t waste any more time. This is a great option for you. You should just go for it apply. So, I bought some GMAT study guides the next day studied as hard as I could every day for three months, took the test, and applied within like two weeks of the final deadlines, but it all worked out so.
[00:06:11] Ray Guan: So at that time, were you only looking at part-time programs, or did you also consider full-time.
[00:06:16] Cat Ziac: Truth be told, I really was only looking at part-time initially. I really liked the job I was in. I liked making money. I liked having that financial freedom. I’m generally quite risk-averse, so I didn’t give up my income and commit to spending, call it $200,000 over the course of two years and just have the pressure of trying to find a job after that. And what if the world is in a weird place in a few years? That was really my instinct.
[00:06:45] Ray Guan: I don’t know what that’s like.
[00:06:48] Cat Ziac: Exactly.
[00:06:49] Ray Guan: Fast forward to July of 2019 when we had, we launched the last we launch in person. So, you are a first-year EWMBA student, and you ran and successfully got the bid to be an Academic Cohort rep. Uh, tell us about that experience, but tell us about first why you signed up for the ACR position?
[00:07:12] Cat Ziac: Yeah, of course. So, the program office explained this role, some of these cohort representative roles. And you could either be an academic cohort rep, or you could be a social cohort rep. And for me, this was immediately appealing for a few different reasons.
[00:07:27] One, I’ve always liked to take a leadership role in school. In high school, I was my class president and just love those kinds of opportunities, and two, I think having come from a small liberal arts school on the East coast. Something I so loved about my undergraduate experience was how close I was with all of my professors.
[00:07:49] And granted, like most of the courses I was taking at Union by the end were like, ten kids. I had some courses where it was just me and one other student and the professor, and I loved that relationship. And I felt like I took so much more learning away from that experience. So, I figured the Academic Cohort rep position would be a great way for me to give back to my classmates, get to know more people, and really importantly, get to know the professors who I feared would be difficult to get to know, just given the size of our AXE cohort, 70 plus students.
[00:08:26] Ray Guan: Right, right. And now you GSI for one of them.
[00:08:30] Cat Ziac: Exactly. Yeah.
[00:08:32] Ray Guan: But we’ll get there. So I guess tell us about some of the advantages then of being an ACR in terms of maybe a story or two, uh, that other students aren’t necessarily privy to.
[00:08:46] Cat Ziac: The academic cohort rep position, at first blush, is a little bit nebulous. You don’t really know what you’re signing up for. It’s pitched to you as, okay. You’re going to be the liaison between the students, the professors, and the program office. And quite frankly, when I applied to it, I didn’t fully appreciate what that meant, but I think especially through that, the course of that first semester, I realized, Oh, wow, this is a really important role. You can really make a big difference for not only the students who are having issues or have concerns but also for the program at large. I think in Berkeley and Haas, in particular, is such a massive institution. You kind of assume, Oh, everything is set in stone.
[00:09:26] Things are the way they are. There’s not going to be any kind of change. And I quickly realized in the ACR experience. Was that okay. You can actually have an impact if you have feedback on how certain courses are going or how instruction is being held or the way we’re sprinkling extra courses like teens at Haas throughout the semester. You can provide all that feedback.
[00:09:46] And the program office will actually listen to it and adapt the program accordingly. But in terms of some of the experiences with being an ACR that were probably most meaningful to me, I think it was just honestly being someone to talk to for the other students. We’re all working professionals in the part-time program.
[00:10:03] This is the first time we’ve gone back to school in many years. We’re all starting something new, and it’s hard, and it’s difficult to adapt. And I think just listening to people and trying to help them address their concerns, whether it’s scheduling concerns or academic concerns, or even something that I can’t help with other than just being someone to talk to.
[00:10:25] Ray Guan: Yeah. I’m sure. Myself and other students have plenty of, uh, let’s just say, um, constructive feedback in quotes.
[00:10:34] Cat Ziac: Yes. Yes, absolutely.
[00:10:36] Ray Guan: The funny thing is. Part of the reason why myself and I would say even Paulina and others, part of the reason why we’re doing this is actually that exact same reason to talk to people. So, fast forward to your second year, you have now become the GSI for well-renowned professor Ross Levine. Uh, so why don’t you then tell us about why you agreed to be a GSI? Was it related to your role as an ACR and maybe some of the benefits as well?
[00:11:05] Cat Ziac: Yeah. So, my experience GSI-ing for Ross Levine actually goes back to the first year of classes. I was an econ major and undergrad. And in the first year, of course, as a Haasie, you take microeconomics in the fall and the macroeconomics and the Spring. And so, I ended up taking my correct announced in the fall, and I’m glad I did because I learned some new stuff that I hadn’t necessarily been exposed to in undergrad.
[00:11:31] And then in the springtime, I mean, my undergraduate experience in econ was actually largely focused on macroeconomics. So I was a little hesitant, should I really repeat, taking more macro that’s I’ve been so exposed to macro for four straight years, you know, in undergrad, but I had heard amazing things that Ross, I mean, he’s a world-renowned economists he’s I think they say the 12th, most cited economist, in the world.
[00:11:59] Think there’s a, there’s a really great podcast that you guys did with Ross. And so, I really, I said to myself, okay, you know what? I really want to take this course. I’m sure I learned something new. So, that spring course was amazing. It was the last course we were able to take in person before the lockdowns. And Ross was awesome. I learned so much. It was a whole new perspective on macroeconomics. It was definitely a much more elevated and advanced course, even though it’s the quote-unquote intro to macro course. And for me, it really just underscored, I think for me, that I love macro. I love econ, and they’re like, I just couldn’t get enough of it. So, fast forward to the fall of 2020. And I get this email from Ross. Cat, I hope you’re doing well. I know you’re very busy, and I know you work full time, but would you consider being the GSI, the graduate student instructor for macro in the Spring.
[00:12:56] Ray Guan: Yeah. What an honor.
[00:12:57] Cat Ziac: I was blown away. My first reaction was like, I don’t have any time to do this at all. But it’s Ross, and I’m going to make it work. So, I responded, I said I would love to do this.
[00:13:12] I think he was shocked. Because typically, part-time students don’t GSI for courses. It’s just too much with working full time and our own coursework. We connected during the fall and over the winter kind of planning for the course. And then, for the past eight weeks, I’ve been working as a GSI for the macro course for the class of 2023.
[00:13:36] Ray Guan: So, I have two thoughts there. I think one that is totally an MBA student mindset in making it work and creating carving more time. And then two, I feel like Ross has may be surprised because you were such a good student that he thought you would be negotiating with him in terms of how to squeeze him in.
[00:13:55] Cat Ziac: I guess in retrospect, I should have, uh, should have negotiated or something, but now for me, it was an easy yes. and it’s been well worth it. It’s been such a fun experience to see the course from the other side.
[00:14:07] Ray Guan: Okay. So, you’ve said how great macroeconomics is. I’ll ask you this, like why does macroeconomics matter for business students?
[00:14:16] Cat Ziac: So, actually, in the very first day of class with Ross, the thing he tells the students is, I’m here to help you get an understanding of macro and help you understand why this is actually important for you to know. Because a lot of the other courses we’re taking are operations strategy, pricing, these things that are like really tangible for our careers. And you can really clearly see how they’re going to help you. And macro just feels so removed. How does it’s going to be applicable to me?
[00:14:46] I think from my perspective, yes, you learn what I do is really fun things in terms of how the central banks operate? How does quantitative easing happen? Why does the labor market behave the way it does, but really at the end of the day, I think macroeconomics is the backdrop for all business activities.
[00:15:05] And so, even if you’re in a tech startup, and you don’t know anything about finance, macro matters to you because that economic backdrop determines what the environment is like for raising money through a VC. If you’re in healthcare, you know, macro might tell you certain things about the business cycle or how different economies are performing relative to each other, which could have tangible impacts on your business.
[00:15:36] So I really do think macro and econ at large is an underappreciated subject in many business schools, but I think Haas is a great job. And the professors who teach economics to the Haas students do a wonderful job of emphasizing why Econ matters and how it can actually impact you from a business perspective.
[00:15:56] Ray Guan: And I think the biggest learning that I had from that class was how basically like the fed will lower interest rates to get people to spend, or they’ll raise interest rates, but to actually apply it. Like a real-life example. My parents right now are thinking about buying property in Las Vegas because they believe that the housing prices will rise in the long run. But in the short run, I think my dad and I were just discussing right before this podcast. He was saying right now; the interest rates are low. And, that’s why it’s a good time to sell. So, he’s thinking about actually selling our place here in Dallas, renting an apartment, and then, you know, potentially buying later. Yeah, I guess it’s macro in real life.
[00:16:42] Cat Ziac: Touches everyone’s lives. Exactly.
[00:16:44] Ray Guan: Before we move on, I just have to ask you, has Ross then opened up to you more now versus when you were an ACR on the other side?
[00:16:53] Cat Ziac: You know, I think Ross has always been a very approachable professor. You know, you kind of go into that class so intimidated, like, oh my God, here’s someone who’s worked up. Some of the biggest financial institutions in the world is at the top of his field. And here’s little old us like just trying to learn the basics. Ross is wonderful, and he’s added so much value to. I think the Haas community and just like the passion he brings to the classroom. And the interest that he solicits in students is really, really unique. And so, it’s just been so much fun to work with him on this class. And he’s been so open to some of my suggestions, and I really have felt like a peer of sorts, which has been really a lot of fun.
[00:17:40] Ray Guan: I think that’s one thing that, for the most part, Haas professors have done very well, which is adjust to feedback that they get, even during the course. We see some of the feedback we give, whether it’s around break times or asynchronous versus synchronous material. A lot of adjustments that professors have made, which in this virtual environment, it’s probably harder than we think it is for them.
[00:18:07] Cat Ziac: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Like this semester, Ross has been teaching in one of these classrooms that they call a Barco classroom. It’s basically a classroom outfitted with a million screens. And you can see all your students almost like life-size. I don’t even know if I could handle it.
[00:18:24] you’re coordinating having all the students in front of you and then your slides, and then you can’t see your slides. And you’re trying to like see hands being raised and watch the zoom chat. It’s crazy. But I think our professors have adapted quite well, and that’s impressive.
[00:18:40] Ray Guan: I think this is officially the one-year anniversary, if not very close to it, of the date, we actually all had to shelter in place in the Bay area. So, how has the quarantine been for you? How has your experience been?
[00:18:56] Cat Ziac: Thank you for asking that. So, my experience has been okay. You know, for me, it wasn’t a huge change simply because I was already working from home. And in fact, in a weird way, I kind of liked that everyone is working from home because when I used to tell people, I worked from home, I always got weird looks. What’s the story there, or what’s going on. And now it’s like, everyone gets it. They understand that you can be just as efficient. You can move forward in your career just as much. It’s not weird. That was the first thing. But I think for me. Honestly, the biggest thing at the beginning throughout it all to this day is, I’m very, very close to my family, but almost all of my family is on the East Coast, and before the pandemic, especially because I was working remotely, I could see them quite frequently.
[00:19:48] And one of my biggest fears moving out to California years ago was, oh gosh, what if I don’t get to see my family that often, you know, I don’t know if I could survive something like that. And here we are. Forced to do that. There’s just no option. I’m very risk-averse, so I wasn’t going to get on a plane and kind of take that chance, you know, it’s just been a matter of really like adapting. So a lot of zoom family calls, stay in touch as much as possible, blown up the family group. Texts, uh, just trying to really stay as close as possible, even though you’re not necessarily physically close.
[00:20:24] Ray Guan: no, that’s a good point. I think a lot of the connections we make now since it’s all virtual, you have to be very deliberate about it. I heard an episode of a podcast where they say that everything’s being accelerated. So, if things didn’t work out for you, whether it’s in your career, your personal life, you know, family, whatever it is, it’s going to be ten times as good or as bad. It’s. I guess the good thing is it sounds like you and your family are connecting very frequently and are probably on the good side of it.
[00:20:59] Cat Ziac: Yeah, I think so. And honestly, my saving grace has been that the one family member who is out here with me is my twin sister. So, while we don’t live together, we live really, really close to each other. And so, we’ve fortunately been able to safely see each other a lot throughout the pandemic. And that’s been a blessing.
[00:21:19] Ray Guan: You mentioned that you were a twin, and I think I didn’t really know that until we had the leadership communications class.
[00:21:27] Cat Ziac: And you know, it’s so funny you say that, that you didn’t realize until we did the leadership communications class, because during that first year of school, every weekend we had class, I told my sister, I was like, Julia, come at six o’clock, come to our happy hour. You got to meet everyone. And Oh, next time.
[00:21:45] And then next week I’m like, come, you got to meet everyone. Come on, come on, come on. Well, she pushed it off for so long that now we’re all remote, and she still hasn’t met anyone in person. So, I’m like, that’s what you get for declining my invitation all the time. Yes, that would be a blast.
[00:22:03] Ray Guan: How has being a twin shaped your academic journey and career?
[00:22:07] Cat Ziac: Yeah. For me, I think my twin and I have always been super, super competitive with each other. So, it was the two of us for the oldest children. I was at on the actual oldest child. I’m two minutes older than her. and then we have a little sister who’s four years younger than us but in high school.
[00:22:28] and I guess actually all through Elementary school, middle school. And then, through high school, we were just super competitive with each other. And so, you know, a lot of people talk about competing against themselves, and it was like a heightened version of that. Not only was I competing against myself, but I was competing against someone who had my exact DNA, my exact life experiences.
[00:22:49] And it just drove us to be really, really competitive and really excel as students. That was kind of our, our thing. Then during college, we went to different schools. I went to Union. She was on the West coast. She went to Caltech. So, we’re totally on opposite ends of the country for the first time, our entire lives, which was a good experience. But after college, we knew we wanted to be back in the same city. so we moved to New York together and like I had mentioned earlier, I was working on wall street, like a very intense, for lack of a better word, like fancy job, you know, talking to clients who work at hedge funds and people trading millions of dollars every single day, it was just this crazy experience.
[00:23:35] And my sister was working for Teach for America. So she was working for a school in the South Bronx, teaching high schoolers math. And every night, we’d come home to our same apartment and kind of just compare stories. So here we were working, not that many miles away from each other, but seeing two totally different sides of the world. And I think. Honestly, I think that really has informed a lot of my career and business decisions since then. And that was a huge reason that I chose to go to Haas is because, you know, I really view businesses as being able to have a positive societal impact. And I think it’s important if you’re in a place of privilege as many businesses and business people are to consider all sorts of people in the world and what you can do to try to better everyone’s lives.
[00:24:34] So I think the fact that Haas is so oriented towards, Humility and thinking about the greater picture and thinking about the and work and live really just resonated with that life experience.
[00:24:46] Ray Guan: No, and I think that’s a great point that you make. Whereas maybe 20, 30 years ago, businesses were concerned. I don’t want to say a hundred percent, but maybe 99% about just purely profit versus now. You have so many more companies that are very mission-driven these days than in years past. And I’m glad that your experience in sharing stories with your sister provides you kind of that perspective that you see a lot of companies, at least nowadays, are transitioning towards.
[00:25:19] Cat Ziac: Yeah, absolutely. And so, Today, I still work at Alliance Bernstein but have a new role at the firm. So last December, I joined the responsible investing team, and one of the things my team is responsible for is voting all of our proxies. So, of course, you know, we’re shareholders of ton of different companies.
[00:25:43] And as shareholders, we get to vote on different proposals. And one of the themes that’s coming up this year is this idea of businesses being far more than just, you know, making money for their shareholders. There’s this idea of considering stakeholders. So, your employees, your communities, your customers, your planet, things like that. And it really does seem to be part of the direction businesses are headed in and is considering not just the bottom line, but really like, what is their purpose? Is to make the world a better place?
[00:26:21] Ray Guan: no, I love that. Okay. So, Cat, you are now in full active mode in that both of us have, for the most part, completed our core classes. What electives are you looking forward to taking?
[00:26:38] Cat Ziac: So right now, I’m taking an amazing elective Financial Information Analysis, something I was kind of intimidated to do. And granted, I’ve been in. The quote-unquote, finance world for most of my career. But not necessarily a technical role, so diving into, okay. How do you analyze the balance sheet and income statement and, different margins and how does the company get valued?
[00:27:04] And the course so far has been amazing. Learning so much. So just loving that course. And then, later this semester, I’m really excited. I’m taking two other courses that are, I think will be up my alley. So, one is sustainable portfolio development, and I thought that would be just so fitting with, with the new role. And the other one is country macro risk. So, it’s just a two-Sunday course, but I had to. I had to take another macro course.
[00:27:35] Ray Guan: When you first said it, I, for some reason I just, I thought of country as like, the country like country music instead of each individual nation. And I had a picture of, uh, like just you and Ross and like with some cowboy hats on and just like talking macro. I mean, it sounds like you kind of found your niche here. What are your plans for the rest of the program?
[00:27:57] Cat Ziac: Yeah. So, I think, you know, for the rest of the program, first of all, I can’t believe we’re already more than halfway through. It’s been going so fast, and when you first sign up, you think, Oh, three years, like, that’s kind of long, but it’s flying by. I think my focus for the rest of the program is really just. Finding courses that I think are super, super interesting, and that I think might be valuable to my career. So, for me, I knew that a year into the program or halfway through the program, I’d want to make a pivot with my career. And so previously at Alliance Bernstein, I was in a marketing role, which I really, really liked, but I knew it wasn’t necessarily going to be for me for long term.
[00:28:38] And I was doing, I was working on some things for our responsible investing team. And I really just so admire the people on that team and really liked the work that they’re doing and completely believed in it. And so, being able to make that jump has been such a satisfying career move for me. And one that I actually made much earlier in my time at Haas, and I expected. So, for now, I think it’s really my focus is to kind of tailor my courses to most help me in that, in that role. So, something like sustainable portfolio development, that’s spot on.
[00:29:10] Ray Guan: Yeah.
[00:29:11] Cat Ziac: I can justify a macro class anytime. So.
[00:29:14] Ray Guan: You might GSI for Ross again. Um, okay. He’s not listening to this, so you don’t have to worry. Cool. All right. Well, I guess the last portion, uh, we just like to have a little fun with our guests. On each episode. So, we’re going to do some lightning round questions. So, these are just quick Q and A’s. The first question is, what is a book or podcast recommendation that you have?
[00:29:42] Cat Ziac: And it can’t be here@haas?
[00:29:43] Ray Guan: I appreciate it. But I feel like you may have some, some better ones.
[00:29:48] Cat Ziac: So, I love Pod Save America. I was never a political person. Um, really, until recent years when I saw everything that was happening and these guys are there from the Obama administration, they started the podcast right after that presidency. They’re hilarious. And. Just so witty, and you learn so much and have a good time. So, I highly recommend that one.
[00:30:18] Ray Guan: What is something that you do to unwind after work? You talk about leaving work at two or 3:00 PM. I think there’s probably plenty.
[00:30:26] Cat Ziac: You know, I said, okay, you need something that separates the workday from the rest of your day. And for me, that’s always been exercise, and I’m not a maniac, but I just love a little bit of light exercise. And so, my thing recently has been walking around Lake merit and Oakland. So, really pretty Lake, it’s like three-mile loop. It’s really. It’s been a great escape.
[00:30:52] Ray Guan: And you have a nice breeze on a lot of, a lot of days as well. And I can’t let you go without asking you. What is a favorite economics principle that you’ve learned since your time at Haas?
[00:31:00] Cat Ziac: I thought you were going to ask me for like my prediction of where the S and P is going to be at the end of the year. So, my favorite economics principle, and I would say it’s my favorite economics model, is the Solow growth model. It’s a classic that I learned in undergrad but learned more at Haas, but it’s a classic.
[00:31:35] Solow growth model. Basically. Your, uh, country’s output per worker depends on the capital per worker and the savings or investment in the economy, as well as the depreciation of that capital.
[00:31:52] Ray Guan: Nice! Hey, I think Ross would be proud. To elaborate on this. What is your favorite defining leadership principle?
[00:32:05] Cat Ziac: Oh, gosh, that’s a really good one. So, I know I’m supposed to say question the status quo because that was the one that was assigned to our cohort, and we’ve we renamed it, axe the status quo. But for me, I really think it’s confidence without attitude. And I think it’s because, that first weekend at Haas, we launch, I was just so blown away by the students.
[00:32:31] And I realized, Oh my goodness. You know? Haas like says they recruit based on the defining leadership principles, they interview you based on the defining leadership principles, you might have to write an essay about it. But you kind of wonder, is that all marketing? And then that first weekend, when I met everyone, I thought to myself, oh my goodness, these people embody the defining leadership principles. I think particularly confidence without attitude. Everyone’s wicked smart. Everyone’s wicked successful. They’re on amazing life paths.
[00:33:03] Ray Guan: Yeah, no, I think that is definitely the most difficult one because I feel like a lot of times when you do get confidence, your quote-unquote attitude also goes up. Exactly. There we go. Way to tie it back to an academic principle. All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today, Cat.
[00:33:24] Cat Ziac: Thank, Ray! This has been great.
[00:33:25] Ray Guan: Thanks for tuning in to another episode of here@haas. If you enjoyed the show, please leave us a rating and review and check out our website for links, show notes, and other episodes. This episode was produced by me with editing done by Kyle Cook. I’m Ray Guan, and we’ll see you next time here@haas.